Black Myth: Wukong has made history as the one of the fastest-selling video games of all time, accumulating 10 million copies sold within 3 days of launch.
Do you not think Asians engaged in chattle slavery?
Well, there’s the whole problem with specifying race again. What do you mean when you say Asian? Are we talking about east Asia, the Indian subcontinent, or even south east Asia?
There was something akin to chattel slavery in India in the 1800s, but nothing as widespread or cruel as chattel slavery in the Americas. As far as east Asia, no there’s not a documented history of chattel slavery.
Chattel slavery is a very specific type of slavery that wasn’t prevalent until the 18th century.
Prejudice isn’t separate from racism, it fits in like a puzzle piece
Lol, I didn’t say it was separate. All racist are prejudice, but not all prejudice is based on racism.
you just don’t like the word.
The word is fine, it’s your understanding of the word that is flawed.
Bro I think you might be racist.
Lol, against whom?
I think you might be trying to enact a revisionist view of history that lessens the actual meaning of racism. I think you are trying to equate all ethnic conflict to the systemic chattel slavery that race science enabled in the first place, making it seem less harmful than what it was.
I think you are trying to exact a revisionist history on slavery and racism. Asians engaged in the chattel slavery you mention in the 18th century, they also engaged in just plain old slavery. There are still millions of slaves today in Asia. This is a weird argument to have with someone.
Chattel slavery was not a Western only concept, you may ask yourselves why the Asian continent is not filled with the children of black slaves. That’s because slaves that were imported to Asia were generally castrated. Used them up, let them die, get new ones, no breeding programs.
Whenever someone spends this much time trying to convince me that their feelings about other ethnic groups are not racist, because racism was invented by the West, I figure they are just trying to desperately hide their racism.
Edit: I’ll be specific for you, specially black slaves entered east Asia through the Arab corridor, the Arab states were the one’s collecting and castrating black slaves, many black slaves also made their way from European traders as well. I’ll even give you some verbiage to look up. The Kunlun slaves. There has been exploitation of indigenous dark skinned tribes for a long long time.
Asians engaged in the chattel slavery you mention in the 18th century, they also engaged in just plain old slavery.
First of all, the 18th century would be the 1700s not the 1800s as I originally stated. Secondly, the slavery that was akin to chattel slavery was introduced to India by the British when they invaded in the latter half of the 18th century.
Lastly, it’s kinda hilarious the only way you could state “Asians engaged in chattel slavery” is by utilizing terminology originating from racial science. We were talking about east Asia, not the Indian subcontinent.
Chattel slavery was not a Western only concept, you may ask yourselves why the Asian continent is not filled with the children of black slaves.
I mean that’s incorrect in so many ways… Chattel slavery was a Western concept, and African slaves never made their way to anywhere close to East Asia.
That’s because slaves that were imported to Asia were generally castrated. Used them up, let them die, get new ones, no breeding programs.
Lol, source?
Whenever someone spends this much time trying to convince me that their feelings about other ethnic groups are not racist, because racism was invented by the West, I figure they are just trying to desperately hide their racism.
Lol, whatever you have to tell yourself to make believe Europe didn’t create one of the largest crimes against humanity ever with the transatlantic slave trade.
We’re just arguing semantics at this point, I’m not arguing the transatlantic African slave trade (a period lasting from the 16th to the 19th century you silly man) wasn’t largely European and evil, of course it was! Everyone in the West who engaged in it was terrible, it may have even been uniquely terrible.
The African slave trade has been active through the Arab Muslim world since antiquity, of the slave routes during the transatlantic period, three went inward into Asia via the Muslim world, the red sea, the Indian sea and the trans Saharan route (this route being used since antiquity).
Where do you think the Chinese were getting these magical Kunlun slaves.
I’m just responding to the weird ass arguments you’re making with all the century shit, the definition of chattel slavery isn’t the transatlantic slave trade, it’s using humans as a commodity, which again is and was worldwide. The transatlantic slave trade was chattel slavery, and Asia did participate in one of the most brutal parts of it through the Muslim world. None of this is a secret you know!
(a period lasting from the 16th to the 19th century you silly man)
The time I used was for chattel slavery, not for the transatlantic slave trade.
African slave trade has been active through the Arab Muslim world since antiquity
And you think the Arab Muslim world is relevant to a conversation about East Asia because your race science categorizes them all as Asians? Despite that most European countries have more culturally shared history than any East Asian country…
Where do you think the Chinese were getting these magical Kunlun slaves.
Lol, that’s from a mythical tale from the fucking tang dynasty…
.
If there actually were real Kunlun slaves, most historians agree that they were most likely from South East Asia.
the definition of chattel slavery isn’t the transatlantic slave trade, it’s using humans as a commodity, which again is and was worldwide.
Never claimed it was? Chattel slavery isn’t just that they were treated as commodities, it that they were treated as personal property. Even in places where slaves were historically traded as a commodity they usually still had some rights. Whether that be you couldn’t break apart their family, enslave their children, or even enslave them in perpetuity.
Chattel slavery requires a system of laws protecting the rights of the owner, ensuring that he could treat slaves any way they see fit.
This is so interesting, honestly your arguments are so all over the place it’s hard to keep up. So you think the idea of humans as personal property was a Western invention that specifically the East Asians didn’t engage in? And you are using the transatlantic slave trade specifically to point that out? Are you arguing that Asian slavery is better because slaves occasionally had rights?
I think the slaves of the Khmer might disagree with you most recently. It’s well known the Tang dynasty in China kept Western slaves. What are you trying to say?
So you think the idea of humans as personal property was a Western invention that specifically the East Asians didn’t engage in?
Slavery has occurred in nearly every society throughout human history, the abnormality which is unique to chattel slavery is the legal system that evolved to protect the owners right in totality. Even in ancient examples that most closely resemble the chattel slavery practiced in the Americas, there were still social contracts that prevented the enslaved from the levels of dire abuse African slaves experienced in the Americas.
Are you arguing that Asian slavery is better because slaves occasionally had rights?
Are you claiming that all slavery is equally bad? That being an indentured servant is the same as chattel slavery? Seems like a pretty convenient attitude for someone who is trying to distance themselves from the largest example of chattel slavery in recorded history.
think the slaves of the Khmer might disagree with you most recently.
Lol, once again equating two totally separate societies and cultures as the same because racist from hundreds of years ago labeled anyone east of turkey as Asian. Cambodia is in South East Asia…
It’s crazy how you don’t see that trying to justify your position with race science is in fact racist. What exactly do you believe validates your examples of Arab slave trade and the Khmer being pertinent to a conversation about East Asia?
well known the Tang dynasty in China kept Western slaves.
Lol, no it really isn’t. You are utilizing your preconceptions about skin color and projecting it to a misinterpretation of a mystical story from the 9th century.
When someone from the tang dynasty is speaking about “westerns” they aren’t talking about Europeans, the Arab world, or Africa. They are usually referring to places immediately west of China or West China. In the case of the Kunlun, they are more than likely talking about modern day Malaysia and Cambodia.
Here is a good breakdown of the Kunlun in China, with sources.
Again, you are applying your preconceptions of racial science to a people that predated it, and have a vastly different understanding of things like skin color. The Kunlun weren’t all slaves, and the type of slavery that did happen was no where close to chattel slavery.
This is a great example of racism in action. You are generalizing an entire continent, the one with a majority of the world’s population, and conflating them to be the same peoples based on criteria that was developed by racial science. The reason this debate has gotten so misconstrued is because the system you utilize to categorize ethnic groups isn’t based on any legitimate or logical basis.
Racism is prejudice applied through the lens of racial science. There’s a similar prejudice that occurs in ethnic prejudice, that can lead to similarly devastating results as racism, but usually on a much smaller scale.
Racial prejudice isn’t based on any real criteria that can be consistently measured or predicted. Which can lead to people classifying an entire Continent of people as the same and lesser than. Instead of a conflict between two rival ethnic groups, it can lead to things like the Scramble for Africa.
I don’t know how you can’t see that as being relevant, and I honestly don’t know why you have a problem with me utilizing a more correct terminology. Utilizing ethnic prejudice is correct when race isnt a factor. Is this the first time you’ve heard of the terminology, or do you think it’s never appropriate? Why do you think both terms are used in academia if you don’t think there’s a delineation between the two?
Do I put a value difference between the Atlantic slave trade/chattel slavery and the sexual slavery of the Vietnamese women, or Korean women? No I guess I don’t! Every version of slavery is both abhorrent and devalues human life, and a well kept slave is functionally still a slave.
I feel like you just ignored any examples that do meet your criteria cause you desperately want Western slavery to somehow be worse than Eastern slavery.
Honestly just sounds like exceptionalism to me. Again, sounds like you are a racist.
Do I put a value difference between the Atlantic slave trade/chattel slavery and the sexual slavery of the Vietnamese women, or Korean women? No I guess I don’t! Every version of slavery is both abhorrent and devalues human life, and a well kept slave is functionally still a slave.
Lol, so the amount of people, the amount of violence, the amount of time it’s practiced, and for what reasons are all meaningless to you?
So if you had a choice of being from Africa and taken from their homeland and forced into perpetual slavery in the US, where your children could be whipped to death in front of you, or sold down the river for no reason. Or you could be in indebted servitude to a rich family in the tang dynasty who used you as a doorman, but you still got to go home to your family who weren’t enslaved at the end of the day.
Both choices would be equal for you? That’s just a false equivocation that is willfully ignorant to the actual human suffering that’s occurred.
This is just as bad as people claiming that the Irish had it just as bad in America as people in chattel slavery in the South because they were both technically “enslaved”.
you desperately want Western slavery to somehow be worse than Eastern slavery.
Because it’s not even close… The chattel slavery that occurred in the Americas is widely regarded by historians as some of the worst forms of slavery in recorded history. By what ever criteria you are ranking it, whether it be by volume, lack of rights, deaths, or in human suffering.
This is not a controversial or even drastic claim. The technology and social hierarchy that allowed them to transport and organize that many people into chattel slavery was even possible prior to the transatlantic slave trade.
feel like you just ignored any examples that do meet your criteria
I’ve responded with a clear explanation to all of your ridiculously racist claims this whole time. Even providing sources that explain exactly how you came up with your assumptions. You on the other hand have ignored every question and have failed to explain how your claims are pertinent to the conversation.
Honestly just sounds like exceptionalism to me. Again, sounds like you are a racist.
Ahh yes, a rebuttal that disproves a highly inaccurate claim…
Exceptionalism.
Again, how do I seem racist? I already said east asians can be racist, I’ve already said they’ve had slaves. The only thing I am denying is your inaccurate use of the word racism under specific context, and denying your clearly inaccurate claims African slave trade happening in East Asia during a specific dynasty.
You on the other hand have made generalized claims about race this whole time, in an effort to conflate all slavery as being equally bad.
You don’t seem like a racist, based on your claims you are a racist. Go kick rocks.
Well, there’s the whole problem with specifying race again. What do you mean when you say Asian? Are we talking about east Asia, the Indian subcontinent, or even south east Asia?
There was something akin to chattel slavery in India in the 1800s, but nothing as widespread or cruel as chattel slavery in the Americas. As far as east Asia, no there’s not a documented history of chattel slavery.
Chattel slavery is a very specific type of slavery that wasn’t prevalent until the 18th century.
Lol, I didn’t say it was separate. All racist are prejudice, but not all prejudice is based on racism.
The word is fine, it’s your understanding of the word that is flawed.
Lol, against whom?
I think you might be trying to enact a revisionist view of history that lessens the actual meaning of racism. I think you are trying to equate all ethnic conflict to the systemic chattel slavery that race science enabled in the first place, making it seem less harmful than what it was.
I think you are trying to exact a revisionist history on slavery and racism. Asians engaged in the chattel slavery you mention in the 18th century, they also engaged in just plain old slavery. There are still millions of slaves today in Asia. This is a weird argument to have with someone.
Chattel slavery was not a Western only concept, you may ask yourselves why the Asian continent is not filled with the children of black slaves. That’s because slaves that were imported to Asia were generally castrated. Used them up, let them die, get new ones, no breeding programs.
Whenever someone spends this much time trying to convince me that their feelings about other ethnic groups are not racist, because racism was invented by the West, I figure they are just trying to desperately hide their racism.
Edit: I’ll be specific for you, specially black slaves entered east Asia through the Arab corridor, the Arab states were the one’s collecting and castrating black slaves, many black slaves also made their way from European traders as well. I’ll even give you some verbiage to look up. The Kunlun slaves. There has been exploitation of indigenous dark skinned tribes for a long long time.
First of all, the 18th century would be the 1700s not the 1800s as I originally stated. Secondly, the slavery that was akin to chattel slavery was introduced to India by the British when they invaded in the latter half of the 18th century.
Lastly, it’s kinda hilarious the only way you could state “Asians engaged in chattel slavery” is by utilizing terminology originating from racial science. We were talking about east Asia, not the Indian subcontinent.
I mean that’s incorrect in so many ways… Chattel slavery was a Western concept, and African slaves never made their way to anywhere close to East Asia.
Lol, source?
Lol, whatever you have to tell yourself to make believe Europe didn’t create one of the largest crimes against humanity ever with the transatlantic slave trade.
We’re just arguing semantics at this point, I’m not arguing the transatlantic African slave trade (a period lasting from the 16th to the 19th century you silly man) wasn’t largely European and evil, of course it was! Everyone in the West who engaged in it was terrible, it may have even been uniquely terrible.
The African slave trade has been active through the Arab Muslim world since antiquity, of the slave routes during the transatlantic period, three went inward into Asia via the Muslim world, the red sea, the Indian sea and the trans Saharan route (this route being used since antiquity).
Here I’ll link a Wikipedia for you! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_the_Muslim_world
Where do you think the Chinese were getting these magical Kunlun slaves.
I’m just responding to the weird ass arguments you’re making with all the century shit, the definition of chattel slavery isn’t the transatlantic slave trade, it’s using humans as a commodity, which again is and was worldwide. The transatlantic slave trade was chattel slavery, and Asia did participate in one of the most brutal parts of it through the Muslim world. None of this is a secret you know!
The time I used was for chattel slavery, not for the transatlantic slave trade.
And you think the Arab Muslim world is relevant to a conversation about East Asia because your race science categorizes them all as Asians? Despite that most European countries have more culturally shared history than any East Asian country…
Lol, that’s from a mythical tale from the fucking tang dynasty… . If there actually were real Kunlun slaves, most historians agree that they were most likely from South East Asia.
Never claimed it was? Chattel slavery isn’t just that they were treated as commodities, it that they were treated as personal property. Even in places where slaves were historically traded as a commodity they usually still had some rights. Whether that be you couldn’t break apart their family, enslave their children, or even enslave them in perpetuity.
Chattel slavery requires a system of laws protecting the rights of the owner, ensuring that he could treat slaves any way they see fit.
This is so interesting, honestly your arguments are so all over the place it’s hard to keep up. So you think the idea of humans as personal property was a Western invention that specifically the East Asians didn’t engage in? And you are using the transatlantic slave trade specifically to point that out? Are you arguing that Asian slavery is better because slaves occasionally had rights?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Asia
I think the slaves of the Khmer might disagree with you most recently. It’s well known the Tang dynasty in China kept Western slaves. What are you trying to say?
Slavery has occurred in nearly every society throughout human history, the abnormality which is unique to chattel slavery is the legal system that evolved to protect the owners right in totality. Even in ancient examples that most closely resemble the chattel slavery practiced in the Americas, there were still social contracts that prevented the enslaved from the levels of dire abuse African slaves experienced in the Americas.
Are you claiming that all slavery is equally bad? That being an indentured servant is the same as chattel slavery? Seems like a pretty convenient attitude for someone who is trying to distance themselves from the largest example of chattel slavery in recorded history.
Lol, once again equating two totally separate societies and cultures as the same because racist from hundreds of years ago labeled anyone east of turkey as Asian. Cambodia is in South East Asia…
It’s crazy how you don’t see that trying to justify your position with race science is in fact racist. What exactly do you believe validates your examples of Arab slave trade and the Khmer being pertinent to a conversation about East Asia?
Lol, no it really isn’t. You are utilizing your preconceptions about skin color and projecting it to a misinterpretation of a mystical story from the 9th century.
When someone from the tang dynasty is speaking about “westerns” they aren’t talking about Europeans, the Arab world, or Africa. They are usually referring to places immediately west of China or West China. In the case of the Kunlun, they are more than likely talking about modern day Malaysia and Cambodia.
Here is a good breakdown of the Kunlun in China, with sources.
Again, you are applying your preconceptions of racial science to a people that predated it, and have a vastly different understanding of things like skin color. The Kunlun weren’t all slaves, and the type of slavery that did happen was no where close to chattel slavery.
This is a great example of racism in action. You are generalizing an entire continent, the one with a majority of the world’s population, and conflating them to be the same peoples based on criteria that was developed by racial science. The reason this debate has gotten so misconstrued is because the system you utilize to categorize ethnic groups isn’t based on any legitimate or logical basis.
Racism is prejudice applied through the lens of racial science. There’s a similar prejudice that occurs in ethnic prejudice, that can lead to similarly devastating results as racism, but usually on a much smaller scale.
Racial prejudice isn’t based on any real criteria that can be consistently measured or predicted. Which can lead to people classifying an entire Continent of people as the same and lesser than. Instead of a conflict between two rival ethnic groups, it can lead to things like the Scramble for Africa.
I don’t know how you can’t see that as being relevant, and I honestly don’t know why you have a problem with me utilizing a more correct terminology. Utilizing ethnic prejudice is correct when race isnt a factor. Is this the first time you’ve heard of the terminology, or do you think it’s never appropriate? Why do you think both terms are used in academia if you don’t think there’s a delineation between the two?
Do I put a value difference between the Atlantic slave trade/chattel slavery and the sexual slavery of the Vietnamese women, or Korean women? No I guess I don’t! Every version of slavery is both abhorrent and devalues human life, and a well kept slave is functionally still a slave.
I feel like you just ignored any examples that do meet your criteria cause you desperately want Western slavery to somehow be worse than Eastern slavery.
Honestly just sounds like exceptionalism to me. Again, sounds like you are a racist.
Lol, so the amount of people, the amount of violence, the amount of time it’s practiced, and for what reasons are all meaningless to you?
So if you had a choice of being from Africa and taken from their homeland and forced into perpetual slavery in the US, where your children could be whipped to death in front of you, or sold down the river for no reason. Or you could be in indebted servitude to a rich family in the tang dynasty who used you as a doorman, but you still got to go home to your family who weren’t enslaved at the end of the day.
Both choices would be equal for you? That’s just a false equivocation that is willfully ignorant to the actual human suffering that’s occurred.
This is just as bad as people claiming that the Irish had it just as bad in America as people in chattel slavery in the South because they were both technically “enslaved”.
Because it’s not even close… The chattel slavery that occurred in the Americas is widely regarded by historians as some of the worst forms of slavery in recorded history. By what ever criteria you are ranking it, whether it be by volume, lack of rights, deaths, or in human suffering.
This is not a controversial or even drastic claim. The technology and social hierarchy that allowed them to transport and organize that many people into chattel slavery was even possible prior to the transatlantic slave trade.
I’ve responded with a clear explanation to all of your ridiculously racist claims this whole time. Even providing sources that explain exactly how you came up with your assumptions. You on the other hand have ignored every question and have failed to explain how your claims are pertinent to the conversation.
Ahh yes, a rebuttal that disproves a highly inaccurate claim… Exceptionalism.
Again, how do I seem racist? I already said east asians can be racist, I’ve already said they’ve had slaves. The only thing I am denying is your inaccurate use of the word racism under specific context, and denying your clearly inaccurate claims African slave trade happening in East Asia during a specific dynasty.
You on the other hand have made generalized claims about race this whole time, in an effort to conflate all slavery as being equally bad.
You don’t seem like a racist, based on your claims you are a racist. Go kick rocks.