What??? We literally saw democracy play out. You can’t even use the excuse that he lost the popular vote, he won every type of democratic way we have.
You know what wasn’t democracy? Installing candidates into primaries over democratically popular candidates. Hillary in 2016, Biden in 2020 and Kamala in 2024. In every single one of these primaries, they did everything they could to shut down anyone popular who showed any sign of having a backbone, even though they killed democracy as it happened.
What we saw was a backlash to a stifling of democracy. Democracy won last night.
If you’re referencing Bernie Sanders in 2016 and 2020, he wasn’t “democratically popular” in either race. That simply is not supported by polling or election results. He was well behind Clinton by all metrics. Then in 2020, he was briefly “winning” because several similar candidates were splitting the center-left lane. The moment the center-left lane narrowed, Sanders’ lead evaporated.
It’s SOP for candidates to more or less clear the field for an incumbent president. This is partially because of a perceived effect from a strong primary challenger weakening an incumbent. So Democrats were just doing what both parties have been doing for the last half century.
The change from Biden was in response to clear reactions from the US electorate. The electorate saw Biden’s debate performance and was not impressed. There wasn’t time to run a process, so Kamala was the obvious choice given a non-ideal situation. But the electorate got what it wanted in terms of an option that wasn’t elderly.
I think you’re forgetting the part where Clinton paid off the DNC’s debts and became it’s only financial lifeline, for which DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz abdicated control of party to Clinton’s team long before she secured the nomination.. Or that the AP controversially called the primary for Hillary just before California voted, giving voters the impression the primary was over before voting finished. Or that the DNC argued in court that they had no obligation give Bernie a fair, democratic primary. Or that Representatives Ford and Smith admitted the party did coalesce around Biden in 2020 to block Bernie. Or that polls had Bernie beating Trump by a wider margin than Clinton in 2016 and Biden in 2020.
Did you forgot the part where it came down to just bernie vs biden in 2020 and people overwhelmingly voted for biden?
I like bernie too, but he wasn’t gonna get the pick
Edit: I have angered the bernie bros
All these sources of intentional corruption against someone running to improve the lives of all Americans and not just a select few, and you just go “Hmm, but he was losing according to the media that lied to us, so he lost fair and square.”
I see how many people didnt vote for him. How is the media lying about that?
You could argue that media was against him, but the truth is that people in america just aren’t that progressive. I mean hell, look at how terrible the dem turnout was this year compared to last election.
Democrats aren’t progressives. Maybe if they were, they wouldn’t lose all the time.
“If they just had my opinions (that are unpopular to the US population at large), they would win.”
If American democracy survived Jackson, Buchanan, Hoover, and Nixon…
Wisconsin, US here. My county went 70% for Trump this time. That’s versus ~48% in 2016. The problem isn’t democracy. The problem is the people. Pissed as hell for all the wrong reasons at all the wrong people. Unable to see reality, expecting that the person in charge could make it a utopia with the flick of a switch. The average American is delusional and irreparably stupid.
We constantly joke that it’s Idiocracy, but the truth is…
This. Was crazy to see everyone turn on the DNC and Harris the moment it was over like we are just unable to come to terms with the fact that we’re surrounded by garbage and morons and there’s no way around it
The results aren’t showing that though. They are showing a large amount of Democrat voters just stayed on the couch. Trump didn’t get more votes than 2020, all that was needed was an energized democratic base.
Trump still got 72 million votes and counting this time. That’s with another four years of Trump scandals, revelations, criminal charges, insurrections, mental declines, and on-video insane statements.
The people who stayed home, or the politicians who failed to motivate them, sure they carry some blame. They could have helped. But they are not the base. The ones who followed Trump from being the outsider who is fun because he’s an asshole/racist like them, to the corrupt traitorous dictator-to-be who they’d like to watch hurt people. Blame them much more.
The steady level of Trump support unfortunately supports the fear that our culture is just garbage. We’re surrounded by it. There are plenty of proud assholes, sure. But so many people will legitimately be pleasant to everybody they meet and seem to function in society, but either believe horrible things or have a thick shell of indoctrination and ignorance around their brain.
Sorry but staying on the couch makes you fall under the garbage and/or moron category imo
Maybe dont genocide next time. Genociders, their financiers, and those who enable them are garbage.
Okay so best case scenario now you have an incompetent, ineffectual rapist and felon now who doesn’t care about genocide in this country let alone another, and will let it drag on. Worst case you have an incompetent rapist and felon who will write a blank check to Netanyahu to finish the genocide quickly with whatever means necessary. His supporters and the people who sat back will share culpability in whichever happens. So we definitely agree on your last sentence
will write a blank check to Netanyahu to finish the genocide quickly with whatever means necessary.
This is literally happening as we speak now that the election is over. How many Gazans will be left for Trump to genocide? How many months early will Israel complete their ethnic cleansing due to Trump? Is there a rate that can occur faster than the billions of dollars we are currently surprising?
I voted for your stupid fucking genocide candidate so fuck off.
I mean I’m guessing tens of thousands? Probably several months early when aid to Gaza goes to zero? So yes, I think yes there is a faster rate. Thanks for doing your part though, sincerely. I’m actually a Canadian living in the US so I’m indeed making plans to fuck off.
US is system is so bad. The constant pandering to “founding fathers” as if it’s even possible to have strong enough vision that it would last 200+ years and refusal to innovate past the ridiculous two party system is just sad tbh.
Yet nothing will change because you can’t change these things without a revolution apparently.
Not to mention that the founding fathers would hate what has become of American politics…
YOU FREED THE WHAT?!
The USA is a bourgeois democracy. It is only a democracy for the rich.
I hope our future dictators are handsome or beautiful and that they come with nice body parts, so when we have to suck their dicks, we can at least enjoy it.
Get ruled.
Not that I’m advocating for it, but it’s completely legal for Biden to order the assassination of Trump and Vance. So yeah, US democracy is dead.
I hope the American people will resist any draconian measures there are bound to be, whether with civil unrest or other forms of protest.
resist any draconian measures
Really bro.
I bet you wore a mask and took a dozen jabs during that pandemic and like being a sheep.
Plain and simple… She was a woman, and a black person - There will be months of tap dancing and “deep” analysis, but we’re just an ugly, atrophied, broken, racist and patriarchal nation, like deep down in our DNA. We were able to elect Obama, yes - he is half white, and a man (those weren’t the loud messages as they attacked him, but Pennsylvania gramma knew those things quietly when she pulled the lever for him). It’s not satisfying, but it’s just the plain truth here. We’re closer to getting over race than we are over sex.
Plenty of deliberate work has been done, mostly by republicans, to keep America stupid, poor and in untreated pain, yes… But we’re also just trash on the whole. We raise trash and we vote for trash. We just aren’t smarter than social algorithms, TV soap opera narratives, costumes and makeup. “The pretend business man is white, old, wears a tie and has a gold watch. He feels like how daddy felt when I was little, and when things are bad, daddy fixed them the way I remember it.”
Video game trolls, people who failed the cop application physical and triple DUI wine moms are America. No further explanation or analysis needed.
Setting aside whether she would’ve won had she been a white man, she could’ve made up for that handicap by appealing to the right people if she had actually been trying to win. Pinning it completely on her race and sex simply ignores her absolute failure of a campaign.
And you’re an expert on ignoring failure
Maybe if you insult people they will be more open to your perspective?
I’m not bothering to comb back through shit I said a week ago but I just assume you’re another defender of voter apathy so, cool
I’m not bothering to comb back through shit I said a week ago
And yet here you are a week later with a comb in hand.
When will you begin to make sense?
You responded to me. Bye
I voted for Harris walz, but I think a lot of this is the fault of Biden for trying to run for reelection and sticking it out until July. I live in the south and I think the lack of a primary reallly hurt the ticket because a sizable portion of the people I’ve talked to felt like she was appointed instead of being elected, which is a bad move when public trust in our institutions is already at an all time low.
The people you talked to are bigoted cowards that wouldn’t have been swayed by any of that shit - She has a vagina and she’s black - That’s all it was ever going to be.
You’re hearing the thing they hope their neighbor would think of them after the fact, " I was this close, Bill… I just wanted more policy detail… More time… If only they didn’t make me vote for trump".
Your neighbor fucking sucks, Bill - this is the time you pause, take a breath, and fully internalize that to inform your future interactions.
Shit dude, I’m far left, believed that the only way to protect democracy was to vote for Harris, and then did it, but even I felt like she was appointed. Nobody wanted her as a first choice but we were forced to accept her when she succeeded Biden. She got 14 million less votes than Biden did in 2020. That isn’t only because she’s a black woman. It certainly plays a part, but we can’t act like it wasn’t just general voter malaise that led to this outcome.
It’s not “just” the fact that she has a vagina, its that that was always going to be the deciding factor. There’s nuance in understanding the distinction there.
So your argument is that she got 14 million less votes than Joe specifically because she’s a woman? Because I struggle to see how it could be the “deciding factor” otherwise.
I agree, it’s an oversimplification. The Democratic party has become the party of ‘going back to business as usual’ and refuses to lower it’s commitment to the corporations that fund it. Trump won 2016 because he was a genuine establishment shaker.
Leftists need a rouge candidate who refuses to bow. Someone who shows promise of CHANGE and not business as usual.
Leftists need a rouge candidate who refuses to bow. Someone who shows promise of CHANGE and not business as usual.
Democrats have proven that they will sue to strip such a person from the ballot. How can they claim to defend democracy while hiding behind First-past-the-post voting?
Well, it is nearly dead now.
The majority voted for the candidate I don’t like. That means democracy is broken.
Trump said the exact same thing in 2020 and was rightly condemned for it. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Get used to it.
I think us non-USians are alluding to the clusterfuck of only having an either/or choice. That’s not how democracy works in most democratic places. There’s only ever two runners and riders that stand any real chance of winning over there. Most people would call that a fixed race.
While there technically might be more choices available in other places (for instance, in Germany there’s usually at least 2-3 smaller parties that have a legitimate chance to make it into the Bundestag), de facto it still boils down to the two major parties (conservatives and social democrats) duking it out amongst themselves, and voting 3rd party is merely a matter of choosing who their junior partner will be. It might help sway the resulting coalition’s direction on some minor issues but the overall direction is still very much decided by the 500 lbs gorilla.
Someone downvoted you for spitting facts? Interesting. The two US parties are both right of centre, which gives an immediate imbalance. Small parties can have some bearing on their senior partners policies, like you say. I’m assuming Germany has local elections, mayoral elections etc. surely some of the smaller, more niche parties, pick up seats in those if they happen. Trends identified by smaller parties will get picked up by bigger parties, so they serve their worth there, too.
Someone downvoted you for spitting facts? Interesting.
Certainly not the first time this has happened.
It’s wild. No matter how fond you might be of your opinion you’ve got to kick it to the curb when facts unravel it.
Keep that in mind for when they come after your own sacred cows.
The majority voted for the candidate I don’t like. That means democracy is broken.
Don’t worry, the US democracy was already broken. That became painfully clear when Trump started whining about not winning the popular vote when he was elected the first time. Being able to lose while having the support of the majority of voters is proof enough:
Hillary: 65,853,625 votes
Trump: 62,985,106 votes
Not every vote has the same weight, which is just completely bonkers and proof that your archaic system is due for a retrofit. Let’s just hope it won’t get chucked away entirely in the coming years.
FYI, Trump DID also win the popular vote this year. Perhaps it’s time to retire this argument.
Why? Trump won fair (proverbial at least, I don’t think all the misinformation that has been spewed on X counts as ‘fair’) and square this year, but that doesn’t mean your system isn’t flawed. Votes from certain states still carry less weight due to improperly distributed electors. Same happened with Gore vs Bush by the way.
What part of “he won the popular vote” did you not understand? Across all states, more people voted for him than for Harris. Even if there was no electoral college, he would still be president.
Unless you’re arguing that electoral college votes should be redistributed in a way that ensures the winner will always be a Democrat…
Across all states, more people voted for him than for Harris.
I never said otherwise.
Unless you’re arguing that electoral college votes should be redistributed in a way that ensures the winner will always be a Democrat…
No, I’m saying that your system needs to be fixed so every vote has the same weight, that’s all. The fact that the term ‘popular vote’ exists at all is the flaw. Who won this year is irrelevant to the argument.
