• EherVielleicht@discuss.tchncs.de
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    1 month ago

    Hi German here, we say fuck ICE a lot because it’s a fast Train who always comes late. But to make a long story short, I am missing something here, what does ICE stand for?

    • spaghetti_hitchens@kbin.run
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      1 month ago

      Immigration and Customs Enforcement in the US. They’re basically the ones who raid homes and businesses looking for undocumented workers

      • LordCrom@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        And don’t forget about separating parents from children, holding illegal immigrants in overcrowded cells made from chain link fences inside buildings… They are America’s version of the Show me your papers patrol.

        • Xephonian@retrolemmy.com
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          1 month ago

          Blame the parents for not immigrating legally. ICE is there to protect our borders. Want open borders? You can donate your house first. Oh not your house? Then fuck off.

          Millions live here legally. “It’s hard!” is not an excuse.

          • ZephrC@lemm.ee
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            1 month ago

            Remember, if you want to let other people move, it also automatically gives them the legal right to steal your house and leave you homeless. That’s why I’m living under a bridge while a family from Mississippi has taken my house. Its okay though. They were born on the plot of dirt between Canada and Mexico, so really that means they’re defending my freedom by stealing my house.

            • Xephonian@retrolemmy.com
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              1 month ago

              They have to move somewhere right? So why not your house?

              Oh right, you’re fine with giving away other peoples things.

              Just not yours.

              • ZephrC@lemm.ee
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                1 month ago

                Who said anything about giving things away? You just made that up. What, you think immigrants are stealing your jobs and also not paying rent? That’s not how thing work in the real world. The only people getting your stuff are the prisons full of innocent people who just wanted a chance at a better life.

          • skulblaka@startrek.website
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            1 month ago

            Blame the fact that it’s so difficult to immigrate legally yet an overwhelming number of businesses rely on cheap immigrant labor. This is a feature, not a bug, because they can pay the illegal immigrants less and abuse them without fear of reprisal because if the employer gets any attitude about it, they call ICE and have the worker deported and replaced with the next struggling desperate immigrant.

            There is no illegal worker in the US that would rather be an illegal worker than a legal carded one. The system is stacked against them because it saves businesses money to do so.

            • OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works
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              1 month ago

              Don’t forget to save some blame for the CIA destabilizing South American governments and terrible living conditions for a huge percentage of the population.

              • Xephonian@retrolemmy.com
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                1 month ago

                South American governments should get their shit together. But they can’t and we all know why. Importing that here is like shitting in your pool then wondering why no one want to swim at your pool party.

                • Belastend@lemmy.world
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                  1 month ago

                  Yeah we all know why. Because every time someone improves conditions for their citizens and nationalized american industries, they get Allende’d.

                • OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 month ago

                  It’s pretty hard to “get your shit together” when a hegemonic for profits from you not having your shit together.

                  In the mean time, what should the regular people do? Just keep suffering through society in a chokehold from drug cartels? Keep raising their kids there?

            • Xephonian@retrolemmy.com
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              1 month ago

              I blame the idiots that think prosperity we enjoy here in the USA is some sort of unlimited resource and that we can just print money when we run out.

              Go ahead, print more money. Hope you’ve already bought your wheelbarrow.

              • skulblaka@startrek.website
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                1 month ago

                Yes, because naturally no other country in the world enjoys a similar level of prosperity without creating an underclass that they abuse for their profit.

                We don’t need to print more money, we have more than enough money. We just need to recirculate the money we do have. There is plenty of money in the USA for most citizens to live a comfortable life without exploitation, but 80% of that money is buried in the pockets of corporations and 15% of the remaining 20% is buried in the pockets of billionaires.

                • Xephonian@retrolemmy.com
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                  1 month ago

                  naturally no other country in the world enjoys a similar level of prosperity without creating an underclass that they abuse for their profit.

                  There literally isn’t. Whine about the percentages all you want. You still have a higher standard of living than literally anywhere else in the world.

                  Capitalism did that. It’s not perfect but it’s better than anything else.

          • LordCrom@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            We dont need open borders, we need a immigration system that can deal with the number of people seeking asylum.

            You want a steady stream not a flood.

            But I get why people risk it to come here. You can walk down the street without worrying about getting killed, kidnapped, tortured, raped… How about we send some of that 895 billion of pentagon dollars to Mexico for law enforcement instead. Like 10 billion, 1 jet fighter. Make Mexico safe for civilians, create job opportunities, and illegal immigration will slow.

    • Rose Thorne@lemm.ee
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      1 month ago

      United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement, border patrol. They’re notorious for the abuse of immigrants(even legal ones) trying to cross over from Mexico.

          • PsychedSy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            1 month ago

            But…then…use a different word?

            I’m so confused. You still swore. We knew what you meant and you knew what you meant. You just censored the text. We’ve got alternatives with no censoring. Message me for Jesus Approved cursing. (please don’t)

            Edit: removed zoomer slight.

            • lseif@sopuli.xyz
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              1 month ago

              sorry, are you the swear police ??

              the phrase that people are repeating is not ‘screw ice’ or ‘screw the police’. ‘f***’ is much closer to the original. i just prefer not to type out the actual letters; is that so bad ?

              • PsychedSy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                1 month ago

                Sometimes, yeah. A lot of the time peeps don’t know what they can get away with.

                I don’t think it’s bad, but it does confuse me and confusion is no fun.

    • volvoxvsmarla @lemm.ee
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      1 month ago

      For real, fuck ICE. My fully booked evening train got cancelled after we had already boarded, the next two that day were fully booked as well, I had to find an airbnb with a toddler and travel the next day, and they replaced just half of the ticket price because I cOuLD HaVe tAKeN AnOtHer TrAiN

      On the other hand their child merch is cute af

        • groet@infosec.pub
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          1 month ago

          If your train is canceled, your ticket is automatically valid for all other trains going in the same direction (doesnt have to be the same route, as long as it will reasonably take you to your destination) for the whole day.

          Depending on how mutch later the next connection arrives, you can get all/parts of your ticket price back.

    • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Basically the federal border control cops that for some damn reason have jurisdiction anywhere within 250 miles of the border.

    • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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      1 month ago

      40% of cops!

      But for this one, please don’t actually assume it’s your friend timmy’s dad, folks.

  • Seraph@fedia.io
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    1 month ago

    They let a bad apple spoil the bunch by not getting rid of the bad apple. Reaping what they sow.

    • dustyData@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Well, you see. Those in charge want that apple there. Because when push comes to shove that apple will also kill activists, protestors and political opponents without asking questions or refusing orders. He will keep fellow apples in check and keep them from speaking up as well. They like that apple.

  • corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca
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    1 month ago

    My sister in law is a (not American) cop when she’s not an EMT … And she also moonlights as a volunteer fireman.

    Where on the hero-bastard spectrum of cheap generalization you’ve devised does she sit?

  • SaltyIceteaMaker@lemmy.ml
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    1 month ago

    Fuck inter-city express (ICE)? Yeah i agree the Deutsche Bahn is horrible & unreliable. Also their trains are always late.

  • nephs@lemmygrad.ml
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    1 month ago

    It doesn’t, though.

    The problem is the institution, not the nice people that think being a cop is a good way to make societies better.

    There’s shitty cops, and the command chain that does nothing about it. That’s the problem.

    Antagonising common peoples dads, and the people trying to be nice cops,and failing, is not the way.

    We have to point at the right problem. And if you point at the corrupt chain of command nice cops will back you up.

    • mannycalavera@feddit.uk
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      1 month ago

      Sir, this is the internet. There is no room for this kind of thinking. I’ll kindly ask you to pick up your pitchfork and join the back on the line.

      • neo@lemy.lol
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        1 month ago

        We can do it, we can create our own Internet, I mean Lemmy, without pitchforks and torches! At least until Lemmy gets relevant. Well, as “relevant” as reddit used to be.

      • nephs@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 month ago

        Yeah, but we have to go after the systems heads, not for its fangs, or claws. These can be used against them.

    • TheOubliette@lemmy.ml
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      1 month ago

      Every “good cop” is one that looks the other way when the bad cops do bad cop things. Or they are actively in the process of being harassed out of the department for “making trouble”.

      Though it should also be said that the modem anti-cop movement comes from the correct understanding that their primary purpose is to protect private property interests, not your safety. Even the theoretical “nice” cop is spending their time, effort, and focus on store break-ins and broken windows and harassing homeless people that a business owner calls an “eyesore” or worse. But again, if they don’t carry water for the rest of their gang members that “nice” cop is getting kicked out of the department.

      • nephs@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 month ago

        Well, I get it. There’s better places to spend ones time than being a nice cop.

        Either they comply of they’re out. But… You know. People are pressured to pay for housing, and food, and health. Maybe they’re paying for someone’s cancer treatment in their family. And cop work pays well.

        People don’t have much of a choice. We’re all fucked. But individuals are not the problem here. The system is. The chain of command is. Capitalism is.

        Fuck the police, as the repression apparatus for the bonjoursie state. Care for the people.

        • TheOubliette@lemmy.ml
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          1 month ago

          Everyone has the choice to not consciously oppress other people.

          Cops have both individual and systemic roles in oppression.

          If you do work irl the cops will eventually use their violence on you.

    • triplenadir@lemmygrad.ml
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      1 month ago

      “the problem is the institution, not the people actively participating in the institution in exchange for money and power” what

      • nephs@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 month ago

        If money wasn’t needed. If people had access to dignified work to pay for housing, food and health, they would have a choice.

        Cop work is always available, on a very low entry bar, paying generally better than equivalent positions elsewhere. And shitty people get to vent their violence unchecked.

        Nice cops “just” have to sell their should a bit. Some people get desperate and are willing to pay the consciousness price.

        In my opinion these positions shouldn’t even be available, the whole chain of command should be replaced by people representing the oppressed classes, committed to ending oppression.

        I’m not defending police, I just think the criticism has to focus on the institution problem, not at the individual problem. Individuals are insignificant in the grand scheme of things, systems are everything.

        • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
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          1 month ago

          Totally honest question: do you feel this way too about Russian soldiers in Ukraine, or IDF soldiers in Gaza?

          • nephs@lemmygrad.ml
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            1 month ago

            I think it’s fair to say that “nice cops” see themselves as civilians, and representatives of the population, trying to improve things.

            Soldiers are military, and a very different category. But! I read many US military personnel go in there because superior education is not really accessible anywhere else. So, maybe there’s a gray zone, there? Cannon fodder soldiers from poor strata die first, in any war. Most don’t want to be there.

            I have particular views about IDF being an genocidal maniacal occupation force for a colonising state that commits innumerable crimes against humanity. That you’re probably not interested about.

            And I have particular views about NATO using disguised Nazi Ideology in puppet states to seize and control it, that I also wouldn’t think you wouldn’t be particularly interested about.

        • triplenadir@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 month ago

          Sure, like any other wildly unethical job there’s a spectrum of different people’s privilege and ability to easily cut out to a less cartoonishly evil job – I would hold Person A with a background in cybersecurity and no dependants a lot more responsible for every day they remain a cop than Person B who joined police academy straight out of high school and is supporting 5 children etc.

          But saying that Person B should be excluded from “fuck cops” – that is, that there should be an exception to the general cultural work of making it socially unacceptable to be part of a murderous, racist, unjust, reactionary paid army – is supporting the institution that you’re claiming to be against. Waiting until a complete societal transformation before campaigning for people to not take blood money (your euphemistic “consciousness price”) is valuing Person B’s economic solvency over the lives of the people they (or, being generous, just their colleagues) will harass, target, frame, and even kill.

    • Altima NEO@lemmy.zip
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      1 month ago

      They’re also seems to be a lot of issues with policy that they’re expected to follow. And when they do unconstitutional stuff, they get defended for doing it.

    • Cowbee@lemmy.ml
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      1 month ago

      Systems can be bad, and the people who support and work within bad systems are bad, even if they act nice outside of that system.

      • GiveMemes@jlai.lu
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        1 month ago

        I disagree with the second part. That means everybody living in a first world country is inherently a bad person just by accident of their birth location. We’re well past the point of choosing whether or not we participate in most systems, and at the end of the day, somebody needs to do the job of law enforcement.

          • GiveMemes@jlai.lu
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            1 month ago

            Ok then, so people who vote in US elections are inherently evil? - a more analogous example

            People who consume bananas are inherently evil?

            People that have smartphones are inherently evil?

            Those things are all choices. How about another one? Lithium mining is a bad system that negatively impacts the environment. Therefore, people that buy electric cars are evil and bad for the environment, right?!?

            • Cowbee@lemmy.ml
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              1 month ago

              Becoming a cop is a life change, voting is standard, as is consuming bananas and using smartphones.

              Deliberately choosing to become a cop is bad, because there are a wealth of alternatives. Not true for voting, bananas, smartphones, or cars.

              A small subset of humans become cops, it isn’t a thing someone just chances into

      • kaffiene@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        I agree with the first part, not the second. All those black kids who end up in the military because of poverty are not all evil. But you’re right about the system so work to change that rather than damning a whole class of people.