It’s fine just go ahead and ban me because I won’t edit anything. I provided two articles about captives and their experience having been held hostage by Hamas, they list multiple instances. I have no time for bs like this.

Just because there are problems with the NYT does not mean this particular story is not credible. This woman is simply sharing her experinece. What evidence do you have to refute the claims of a rape victim? Should she not be taken as seriously as any other rape victim? Just because Israel can take advantage of such a story to justify genocide does not mean we can discredit the story without being intellectually dishonest.

Sexual assault: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/26/middleeast/amit-soussana-israeli-hostage-hamas-sexual-assault-intl/index.html

Abuse: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hostages-held-hamas-describe-life-was-captivity-rcna126781

Do you hound everyone for citations or only in this case? Do you want proof that these people have had these testimonies or that these things actually happened?

Thanks for pointing that out. No denying this. Is this about Amit Soussanna? Would be curious to see a timeline for that. But also as a rape victim myself, it took me years to finally come out and tell my parents what had happened. It’s possible that she is lying, but also possible that she is saying he truth. It doesn’t say anything politically about Hamas or Palestinians… it’s just a thing that is likely to have happened.

The thing is, it would also be naive to assume that no sexual assault or abuse happeend. Even Hezbollah (a much more disciplined army) will have cases like that.

I never denied that and nothing I said points to anything against that. Some Hamas fighters still raped and abused some captives. This is reality. These people also have the right to have their story heard because it’s just one part of the truth.

Before I do that can I say this?

I guess what you mean to ask is: was this part of the NYT report or not? Is that right?

And also, I agree that much of that report was BS, but is that enough to discredit every single story in it? You may pretty well be denying rapes that did take place. I have no reason to deny the testimonies of some of these women. Hamas fighters are not angels and it would be quite naive to assume that no rape happened. What I said does not suggest that Hamas carries out systematic rape. Maybe that is a claim more worth your time to moderate than “some victims came out and spoke out about sexual assault during captivity.”

But if this is how things roll in this community then just ban me 😉

I think there probably were some? Pretty sure some released hostages described abuse and sexual assault.

I hate Hamas, as a Palestinian, but Hamas fighters are not demons… they are not angels either.

Keep in mind it’s always possible that they do this partly for PR. But at least they were transparent, even if they did in to look good. After all, next to Israel, anyone would look good.

Isn’t it just so funny how Hezbollah attacks military targets but every time Israel bombs Lebanon it goes like “Grandmother and grandchild killed in two separate cars, Israel says it was a woopsie”?

No no no clearly all those Gazans who rent apartments in buildings inside the open air prison they live in, those are TOTALLY human shields and must hence be KILLED! Otherwise the Khamas WINS!!

/s

Alright, so while you’re totes cool with posting links to a “news agency” controlled by the Iranian government, you have a bone to pick with the NYT?

But these things are irrelevant. They could still post “propaganda sites” and NYT could still also be wrong.

The latest count on Al-Jazeera was 109 with over 800 wounded, and reports of 40 bodies bulldozed away that no one can reach. They did shoot at a crowd of thousands.

In high-school and university it always disappointed me that Palestinians didn’t have enough representation and a platform in global media. During this war on Gazans, I’ve seen every conceivable human rights organization involved criticize Israel and report on its crimes. I’ve seen the CNN write detailed investigate reports about the victims of the Israeli terror state. I’ve seen world leaders demand a ceasefire… and I thought to myself, "surely this time things are better! we are in the media, countries support us (sometimes as people, sometimes as governments, sometimes as both)… now we have all these amazing Palestinian voices speaking on television and in university lectures and media and film festivals… surely this time things will change."

But no, it turned out to worse than the Nakba. 🙂 Turns out lack of representation and media coverage wasn’t the only issue plaguing Palestinians.

So tell me, what is it that makes Palestinians so unimportant in the eyes of Biden? So unworthy of human rights?

Reminds me of that into to that song by DAM (YT, Piped, lyrics in English):

وين ما اروح باشوف حدود ساجنه الأنسانيه

ليه أطفال العالم حره وأنا ما الي حريه ؟

“Wherever I look, I see borders that jail humanity. Why are all the children of the world free but there is no freedom for me?”

Waiting for the average Zionism defender saying:

• That’s just a report!!!
• You’ve clearly been tricked since Hamas told them to go stand there!!!
• The IDF were not even there, okay? Didn’t you hear their side of the story?
• Probably Hamas members were there, surrounding themselves by innocent civilian zombies who clearly have no free will and just do as Hamas tells them even when they are about to lose all 6 children of theirs.

You might be right. I found this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omer_Goldman

… so this isn’t really a viable solution.

You largely can choose the provider of this service,

Really? I’m from the Middle East, took me fucking ages to “change the provider”.

If you’re in a country with compulsory military service, make yourself interesting for other countries and leave.

Literally not an option for 99% of people.

us comparatively free thinking westerners

For myself, I grew up with the Islam kool-aid in the Middle East in an Islam-majority country and though the journey was troublesome, I very much managed in the end to shed religion and tradition off my shoulders and unlearn all the crap I was indoctrinated to believe in, including layers of anti-semitism. I felt like I lived in a similar kind of propaganda machine and managed to find my way out. If I can do it, hopefully, anyone can do it given the right opportunities, support, and time.

Ah, I understand.

You’re right, choosing prison over killing innocent civilians requires first understanding what is going on, something which indoctrination is meant to hinder. I think what I meant to say is that it’s weird not more people have been able to escape this indoctrination and choose prison instead of service. Then again, Israel has been successful at this genocide thanks to their incredible propaganda machine, so I shouldn’t underestimate the effect it has on people.