How else am I supposed to react to a hyper simplification of the multifaceted problem that is men’s issues?
Evidently women still have many issues coming from male dominant culture formed before the industrial revolution, there has been good progress but there’s still a long path ahead.
Yes, that’s true.
Men have issues coming from cultural norms too. imo the biggest hindrance for men at the moment is not nearly enough people talk about men’s mental health.
True.
Promoting solutions for women doesn’t mean ignoring men’s issues.
Promoting awareness to men’s issues is not against women’s interests.
Yes. That’s why the most prominent men’s rights activists are also women rights activists.
When someone is promoting progress, let’s not jump to “there are bigger problems elsewhere”
That’s not what’s happening here.
If you want to promote change via debate, being aggressive is the worst strategy. Why not say “hey, I hear your argument for women, and on this note I’d also like to raise this other related subject about men’s issues.”
The problem is that they brought up men’s rights issues in the most passive aggressive snarky way possible while hyper-generalizing and hypersimplifying it.
As a man, I’ll confirm that we have issues, but, most of them are self imposed.
I could do without toxic masculinity, and the social rules that say we cannot empathize, cannot have emotion, we must eat raw meat and punch each other so we can pick up heavy things and smash even heavier things.
But, I don’t know who you are crying victim to. Men set these rules for other men, and I can’t really wrap my head around the concept of men asking men to stop taking away the rights of men.
You’ve miss interpreted my words.
Nobody is crying victim.
This is not about weather or not men’s issues are self imposed. It’s about the consistent oversimplification of the multifaceted problem that is men’s issues.
Men set these rules for other men
That’s not entirely true. There’s plenty of other factors you’re not taking into account. Fatherlessness, poverty, the lack of men’s mental health infrastructure and funding, the chosen ignorance of domestic violence against men & boys, the hashtag #killallmen trending on Twitter back in May 2014, the sexualization of boys getting molested by women like some how that’s supposed to normal, female SO’s getting categorically lighter sentencing for the same crime, entrenched societal biases, the dismissal or trivialization of issues affecting men and so so much more.
Then there’s the intersection of men’s issues with other marginalized identities, such as race, sexuality, and disability, creating additional complexities.
Men’s issues are multifaceted and go beyond simplistic narratives like “men hurt men” copout bs.
and I can’t really wrap my head around the concept of men asking men to stop taking away the rights of men.
It’s easy once you realize that the problem with the “gender war” is not women vs men, it’s the poor vs the government + the rich.
Please consider watching : Pt.1 &
Pt.2 , I know they’re long, but you’ll have a much deeper understanding of my perspective.
I agree we are all getting fucked by the system. The results of that in my life are different than how it affects your life. The system screws men in a different way than it screws women. It screws black people different than white people. It screws this religion different than that religion.
It just sounds selfish to me when you acknowledge that the problem is bigger than “Men’s issues”. And although it’s not quite as bad, it reminds me of All Lives Matter.
Cancer has MANY symptoms. When someone is complaining about how they lost both their legs to cancer, and you’re like “But MY cancer occasionally makes me feel dizzy”, yeah, it sucks that you have cancer, and I wish you didn’t, but trying to equate your dizziness with amputation just makes you sound ignorant and desperate for attention.
By all means, let’s cure the cancer for everyone, but until we can do that, we should triage, and treat the most severe symptoms before we start worrying about the occasional dizziness.
Because the gender war is a symptom of poor vs rich + government and is the entire topic of this thread.
I agree we are all getting fucked by the system. The results of that in my life are different than how it affects your life. The system screws men in a different way than it screws women. It screws black people different than white people. It screws this religion different than that religion.
Exactly the point. Continuing that line of thought. Do you think, a solution for one group is just going to magically work for another?
It just sounds selfish to me when you acknowledge that the problem is bigger than “Men’s issues”. And although it’s not quite as bad, it reminds me of All Lives Matter.
How is this at all related?
Cancer has MANY symptoms. When someone is complaining about how they lost both their legs to cancer, and you’re like “But MY cancer occasionally makes me feel dizzy”, yeah, it sucks that you have cancer, and I wish you didn’t, but trying to equate your dizziness with amputation just makes you sound ignorant and desperate for attention.
By all means, let’s cure the cancer for everyone, but until we can do that, we should triage, and treat the most severe symptoms before we start worrying about the occasional dizziness.
Again you’re misinterpreting, using your cancer analogy, this is like :
P1 : “I have cancer and made huge strides to beat it, I know you have cancer too, use this and this and do this and this and take theses supplements & drugs, eat this diet, smile more, do this exercise, blah blah blah”
P2 : “We don’t even have the same type of cancer, you have Rhabdomyoma, I have Leukemia, what you’re suggesting doesn’t work or isn’t nearly as effective, cancer is way more complex than that.”
P1 : “Fuck you then.”
Again, Please consider watching : Pt.1 &
Pt.2 if you want a deeper understanding of my perspective.
Without going through your experiences, I can’t fully understand how you have personally been punished for being a man.
My personal experiences have shown me that no matter how bad I’ve had it, every situation in my life would have been worse if I were a woman, gay, or had a darker complexion.
Without going through your experiences, I can’t fully understand how you have personally been punished for being a man.
You want to know my personal experience?
There’s so so much I could say. But I’m not comfortable with publicly trauma dumbing.
Without giving away too much, I will say that an event accord when I mearly 6, when I told, I was meet with scoffs of disgust, and called a lier, and the events continued for some time, years later, after I had already repressed it deep down and everyone forgot. My little sister comes out about a similar event that happened to her, and she was meet “omg!! That’s horrible!! We need to take immediate action, you should’ve come to us about this sooner”, note that we came out to the same people. More over, it likely wasn’t even the first time it happened, it’s just as far back as I can remember. That’s all I’ll disclose, if I think about it to much I’ll trigger an episode.
I’m dyslexic and have reading OCD, it takes me longer to write and development my argument.
I read your comment the first time, and as per my OCD, I’ll be reading it again.
I understand that you’re angry. Sure the initial comment was slightly snarky, and yes, a lot of frustration is caused by a large lack of willingness to address men’s issues.
But I’d just like you to find out what you want to achieve with your commentary.
If your objective was to raise an argument and change someone’s mind, then starting a conversation with
Stop pretending you know jack shit
And
STFU about your cope bullshit
Will never convince anyone
If you just wanted to express your anger, then I think it’s unjustified to direct it so intensely to the initial comment. The intensity does not match the casual tone of the comment and it’s uncalled for.
Maybe you just wanted to spend some idle time by commenting on posts. Sure that’s fair, but considering the stress you put into this I’d say that’s probably a net loss for your mood
That’s not what’s happening here
Sorry if I misunderstood that. But your tone did not help with my understanding of your point
The problem is that they brought up men’s rights issues in the most passive aggressive snarky way
Sure I agree that the initial comment deserves some correction, but You will never get your point across by insulting someone.
often to convince someone you should talk to them like they’re your friend. I know the insults might come more naturally than friendship, but respect is what effectively causes change.
I’m just suggesting you use your energy and patience more efficiently
I enjoyed this conversation, and hope you did too. Cheers
You bring up good points, and you’re right. I acted irrationally out of anger.
The insensitivity of the way she presented men’s issues… Tbh, it hurt me and it came out as intense anger that clouded my judgement and muddied the point I was trying to get across.
In retrospect, I should’ve handled it better and voiced my frustration more clearly and (much) less offensively. Sorry I blew up like that.
Thank you for your understanding and consideration. You’re quite kind hearted & empathetic, and have restored some of the little faith I have left in humanity. You keep on being you, you’re wonderful.
How else am I supposed to react to a hyper simplification of the multifaceted problem that is men’s issues?
Yes, that’s true.
True.
Yes. That’s why the most prominent men’s rights activists are also women rights activists.
That’s not what’s happening here.
The problem is that they brought up men’s rights issues in the most passive aggressive snarky way possible while hyper-generalizing and hypersimplifying it.
As a man, I’ll confirm that we have issues, but, most of them are self imposed.
I could do without toxic masculinity, and the social rules that say we cannot empathize, cannot have emotion, we must eat raw meat and punch each other so we can pick up heavy things and smash even heavier things.
But, I don’t know who you are crying victim to. Men set these rules for other men, and I can’t really wrap my head around the concept of men asking men to stop taking away the rights of men.
You’ve miss interpreted my words.
Nobody is crying victim.
This is not about weather or not men’s issues are self imposed. It’s about the consistent oversimplification of the multifaceted problem that is men’s issues.
That’s not entirely true. There’s plenty of other factors you’re not taking into account. Fatherlessness, poverty, the lack of men’s mental health infrastructure and funding, the chosen ignorance of domestic violence against men & boys, the hashtag #killallmen trending on Twitter back in May 2014, the sexualization of boys getting molested by women like some how that’s supposed to normal, female SO’s getting categorically lighter sentencing for the same crime, entrenched societal biases, the dismissal or trivialization of issues affecting men and so so much more. Then there’s the intersection of men’s issues with other marginalized identities, such as race, sexuality, and disability, creating additional complexities. Men’s issues are multifaceted and go beyond simplistic narratives like “men hurt men” copout bs.
It’s easy once you realize that the problem with the “gender war” is not women vs men, it’s the poor vs the government + the rich.
Please consider watching :
Pt.1 & Pt.2 , I know they’re long, but you’ll have a much deeper understanding of my perspective.
If it’s poor vs rich, why even mention gender?
I agree we are all getting fucked by the system. The results of that in my life are different than how it affects your life. The system screws men in a different way than it screws women. It screws black people different than white people. It screws this religion different than that religion.
It just sounds selfish to me when you acknowledge that the problem is bigger than “Men’s issues”. And although it’s not quite as bad, it reminds me of All Lives Matter.
Cancer has MANY symptoms. When someone is complaining about how they lost both their legs to cancer, and you’re like “But MY cancer occasionally makes me feel dizzy”, yeah, it sucks that you have cancer, and I wish you didn’t, but trying to equate your dizziness with amputation just makes you sound ignorant and desperate for attention.
By all means, let’s cure the cancer for everyone, but until we can do that, we should triage, and treat the most severe symptoms before we start worrying about the occasional dizziness.
Because the gender war is a symptom of poor vs rich + government and is the entire topic of this thread.
Exactly the point. Continuing that line of thought. Do you think, a solution for one group is just going to magically work for another?
How is this at all related?
Again you’re misinterpreting, using your cancer analogy, this is like :
P1 : “I have cancer and made huge strides to beat it, I know you have cancer too, use this and this and do this and this and take theses supplements & drugs, eat this diet, smile more, do this exercise, blah blah blah”
P2 : “We don’t even have the same type of cancer, you have Rhabdomyoma, I have Leukemia, what you’re suggesting doesn’t work or isn’t nearly as effective, cancer is way more complex than that.”
P1 : “Fuck you then.”
Again, Please consider watching :
Pt.1 & Pt.2 if you want a deeper understanding of my perspective.
If you’re not going to read and respond to mine, I’m not going to bother watching yours.
Best wishes to you.
EDIT: Originally the only comment above was reposting the links to the videos. They added a comment after I complained about the lack of one.
I did read. Read again.
I went back and saw your edit.
Without going through your experiences, I can’t fully understand how you have personally been punished for being a man.
My personal experiences have shown me that no matter how bad I’ve had it, every situation in my life would have been worse if I were a woman, gay, or had a darker complexion.
I hope that it gets better for you.
You want to know my personal experience?
There’s so so much I could say. But I’m not comfortable with publicly trauma dumbing.
Without giving away too much, I will say that an event accord when I mearly 6, when I told, I was meet with scoffs of disgust, and called a lier, and the events continued for some time, years later, after I had already repressed it deep down and everyone forgot. My little sister comes out about a similar event that happened to her, and she was meet “omg!! That’s horrible!! We need to take immediate action, you should’ve come to us about this sooner”, note that we came out to the same people. More over, it likely wasn’t even the first time it happened, it’s just as far back as I can remember. That’s all I’ll disclose, if I think about it to much I’ll trigger an episode.
I’m dyslexic and have reading OCD, it takes me longer to write and development my argument.
I read your comment the first time, and as per my OCD, I’ll be reading it again.
I understand that you’re angry. Sure the initial comment was slightly snarky, and yes, a lot of frustration is caused by a large lack of willingness to address men’s issues.
But I’d just like you to find out what you want to achieve with your commentary.
If your objective was to raise an argument and change someone’s mind, then starting a conversation with
And
If you just wanted to express your anger, then I think it’s unjustified to direct it so intensely to the initial comment. The intensity does not match the casual tone of the comment and it’s uncalled for.
Maybe you just wanted to spend some idle time by commenting on posts. Sure that’s fair, but considering the stress you put into this I’d say that’s probably a net loss for your mood
Sorry if I misunderstood that. But your tone did not help with my understanding of your point
Sure I agree that the initial comment deserves some correction, but You will never get your point across by insulting someone. often to convince someone you should talk to them like they’re your friend. I know the insults might come more naturally than friendship, but respect is what effectively causes change.
I’m just suggesting you use your energy and patience more efficiently
I enjoyed this conversation, and hope you did too. Cheers
You bring up good points, and you’re right. I acted irrationally out of anger.
The insensitivity of the way she presented men’s issues… Tbh, it hurt me and it came out as intense anger that clouded my judgement and muddied the point I was trying to get across.
In retrospect, I should’ve handled it better and voiced my frustration more clearly and (much) less offensively. Sorry I blew up like that.
Thank you for your understanding and consideration. You’re quite kind hearted & empathetic, and have restored some of the little faith I have left in humanity. You keep on being you, you’re wonderful.
Great to know that you can recognize your imperfections. I’m sure you have a good character. And i’m glad you’re feeling better. Cheers!