We have heard from multiple people in multiple unrelated contexts that they are hoping for a hard fork of the entire community over the continued inaction on the toxic culture in the Nix project.
Oh yes, please. My experiences on the nix community forums and matrix have been soured by the actions of high-level contributors. They are simply unable to view things from another perspective and harshly defend their perceived territory. I accept that they make mistakes as we are all human, but they are aware of their positions of power and happily take advantage of it.
My major problem has been the documentation of the project and how top contributors are unable to accept how bad it is. Discussions about improvements and attempts at improving it at regularly shut down or impeded. Coming back to the “harsh defense of perceived territory”, it distinctly feels like existing teams are supposed to be the only ones making changes to the things they own. Contributions from “outsiders” never exit nix review hell and are nitpicked to death.
A hard fork doesn’t guarantee existing problems won’t be copy-pasted into a new community (humans be humans), but at least if a new one started there’d be an attempt at resolving existing problems.
(no, I’m not xz’ist - this is a real person with a real opinion)
Edit: I realise I don’t have the same issues as described in this open letter which seems to be focused on Eelco. There have been no interactions with the dude, so I can’t judge, but interactions with some high-level nix members haven’t been pleasant.
My major problem has been the documentation of the project and how top contributors are unable to accept how bad it is. Discussions about improvements and attempts at improving it at regularly shut down or impeded. Coming back to the “harsh defense of perceived territory”, it distinctly feels like existing teams are supposed to be the only ones making changes to the things they own. Contributions from “outsiders” never exit nix review hell and are nitpicked to death.
I made a one time contribution to the nix docs, I also got the impression that managing documentation could be better but it did got accepted after a few changes.
With that said there are alternative projects that provide a form of documentation to nix.
Yeah, I enjoy hitting F3 twelve times to find the beginning of mkDerivation documentation - silly me, I must’ve known to search for “stdenv” documentation. Or having to find the source-code of makeWrapper because the documentation for it is mostly in the make-wrapper.sh. Or trying to find a lib function in the unsorted list of library functions.
But why is reference documentation in the “manual” anyway and loaded as a single html? The configuration options are also one humongous html, but separated from the manual. So it is possible to separate the manual, but it hasn’t been done for some reason.
Python uses sphinx or mkdocs, rust uses cargo doc, and C/C++ (+ other languages) use doxygen, and they generate multi page, static, documentation with quite reasonable search, but for some reason nix went the single document way requiring Ctrl+F.
It is slowly getting better, but I find external sources to often be much better than the manuals.
Oh yes, please. My experiences on the nix community forums and matrix have been soured by the actions of high-level contributors. They are simply unable to view things from another perspective and harshly defend their perceived territory. I accept that they make mistakes as we are all human, but they are aware of their positions of power and happily take advantage of it.
My major problem has been the documentation of the project and how top contributors are unable to accept how bad it is. Discussions about improvements and attempts at improving it at regularly shut down or impeded. Coming back to the “harsh defense of perceived territory”, it distinctly feels like existing teams are supposed to be the only ones making changes to the things they own. Contributions from “outsiders” never exit nix review hell and are nitpicked to death.
A hard fork doesn’t guarantee existing problems won’t be copy-pasted into a new community (humans be humans), but at least if a new one started there’d be an attempt at resolving existing problems.
(no, I’m not xz’ist - this is a real person with a real opinion)
Edit: I realise I don’t have the same issues as described in this open letter which seems to be focused on Eelco. There have been no interactions with the dude, so I can’t judge, but interactions with some high-level nix members haven’t been pleasant.
Anti Commercial-AI license
I made a one time contribution to the nix docs, I also got the impression that managing documentation could be better but it did got accepted after a few changes.
With that said there are alternative projects that provide a form of documentation to nix.
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Yeah, I enjoy hitting F3 twelve times to find the beginning of
mkDerivationdocumentation - silly me, I must’ve known to search for “stdenv” documentation. Or having to find the source-code ofmakeWrapperbecause the documentation for it is mostly in themake-wrapper.sh. Or trying to find a lib function in the unsorted list of library functions.But why is reference documentation in the “manual” anyway and loaded as a single html? The configuration options are also one humongous html, but separated from the manual. So it is possible to separate the manual, but it hasn’t been done for some reason.
Python uses sphinx or mkdocs, rust uses
cargo doc, and C/C++ (+ other languages) use doxygen, and they generate multi page, static, documentation with quite reasonable search, but for some reason nix went the single document way requiring Ctrl+F.It is slowly getting better, but I find external sources to often be much better than the manuals.
Anti Commercial-AI license
deleted by creator
Lol, I’m a contributor nix related projects (and formerly nixos) with rejected doc related PRs. I tried to help and it wasn’t wanted 🤷
So sorry for having an opinion on the perfect state of nix/nixos documentation. I must not be seeing its perfection.
Anti Commercial-AI license
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