“I will no longer be complicit in genocide [in Gaza]. I am about to engage in an extreme act of protest,” the man apparently said before setting himself alight and repeatedly shouting “Free Palestine!”

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  • zaphod@lemmy.ca
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    9 months ago

    Sure, maybe if they drew their weapons immediately, before his act. That’d make sense. They wouldn’t know what he was gonna do.

    The trouble is, based on the reporting we have, they drew their guns after he lit himself on fire, not before:

    as soon as he was engulfed in flames they started yelling at him to get down on the ground. They even drew their guns on the burning man before someone pushed them to get fire extinguishers to extinguish the fire.

    I’m thinking by the time the guy was engulfed in flames he was a little too preoccupied to do much else.

    Can you imagine facing a living bonfire, and your first thought is “I should draw my gun and tell them to get down on the ground”? There’s genuinely no excuse for that level of inhumanity.

    • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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      9 months ago

      If your job is to secure the embassy/ site/ scene you work down a list. They clearly followed the list.

      We now know that he was no risk, but they couldn’t.

      They aren’t equipped with fire extinguishers (aside from the guy who got one), so are you assuming they should jump on him? Smother a fuel fire with their bodies? Does that secure the site? No. It’s also not realistic.

      Seems like securing the site then 1 person getting a fire extinguisher is a completely responsible response.

      • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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        9 months ago

        He’d already fallen down and stopped screaming when they drew on him. What threat would he pose that a gun was going to solve at that time? Before you say bomb, think carefully about what a gun was going to do in that circumstance.

        No, this was an example (once again) that “try to kill anything you don’t immediately understand” is the default condition of our law enforcement. Last week’s example was an acorn, and a very, very lucky handcuffed man in the back of a police cruiser.

        • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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          9 months ago

          This is not the acorn thing at all. They are trained to secure the embassy and they did that.

            • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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              9 months ago

              I ignored it because it’s irrelevant. You’re applying a subjective value assessment to professionals following training. It’s ugly, but it’s not meant to be “nice” or compassionate. They are there to protect the embassy

              • zaphod@lemmy.ca
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                9 months ago

                I ignored it because it’s irrelevant.

                You ignored the context and circumstances because they’re irrelevant?

                Your answer to every comment has consistently been (paraphrasing): “trust the cops, they know what they’re doing”, irrespective of any surrounding facts that might suggest otherwise, or any past history that would suggest that law enforcement doesn’t deserve that level of blind trust.

                Given that, there’s little point in further discussion.

                • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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                  9 months ago

                  Unfortunately for everyone here, the security staff do not care. That’s the reality and the hard stop. There’s nothing else.

                  Everyone is applying subjective value judgements, and hindsight evaluations on this. They don’t apply.

              • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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                9 months ago

                I just want to know what they were going to prevent with guns, given he was immobilized and not even screaming anymore in addition to being engulfed in flames. You seem to have all the answers, so I’m sure there must be something dangerous he could have done at that point which could have been stopped by a gun - please just tell me what it was.

                • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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                  9 months ago

                  They don’t know what they’re walking into. We know after the fact what they had.

                  • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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                    9 months ago

                    But they know possibilities right?

                    If I say “guy in a store with a gun” - he could be a robber, he could be a murderer, he could have hostages, etc.

                    This guy was down, engulfed in flames, and not screaming when they drew. So what possibilities come up when I say “guy on the ground, on fire, past the ability to communicate or travel under his own power” that is a problem a gun could solve?

                    In any case this:

                    They don’t know what they’re walking into. We know after the fact what they had.

                    Is just a more palatable (to you) way to say this, which is what I wrote in the first comment of mine you replied to:

                    this was an example (once again) that “try to kill anything you don’t immediately understand” is the default condition of our law enforcement.

                    See, we agree!