2024.07.08 While the gaming industry explores the potential of generative AI, Nintendo remains cautious due to concerns over IP rights and the company's predilection for its unique approach to game development.
Instead of generative AI for game assets, id much rather see something like a LLM in game that dynamically controls NPC behavior. That would be cool as hell.
Like an RPG where you can type what you want to say to an NPC instead of choosing a fixed dialogue tree.
Only if they use it the same way and within the same context.
But isn’t that what always happens when a new gaming system/idea explodes and clones start poping up?
I don’t think that matters much, in fact competition might actually be a good thing.
I guess I just don’t see the appeal. If I wanted to interact with an AI, I can do it right now without launching a game to do it. And pointless NPCs are already one of the most annoying parts of games for me. I don’t want to waste my time reading meaningless dialogue from 100 characters trying to find the 1 person who will actually let me advance and continue playing the game. It will be even worse when they are all taking an unlimited stream of shit instead of 1 or 2 canned responses, because it will just be even harder to know who is wasting your time.
As with all things, it will come down to how its used and the prompt.
For instance, filler characters could have a built in plan tonger more abrasive and use shorter responses when engaged.
The plot can still be set and the dialogue is used to advance that, however you choose to proceed.
I’m sure some will be seamless and great. Others will be clunky. Its not the tool, but how its used. If generative AI is just used to make assets and dialogue instead of paying artists, it will be crappy. If artists use it to plan characters and plots that flow more freely but still allow engagement and sandbox, it’ll be awesome.
To each their own. For me, a good lore and dialog is what makes a good RPG stand out.
If I want action and reflexes, I’d go play an action game. If I want strategy, I’d go for a puzzle game, or a 4X, deckbuilder, etc. But in a proper RPG what I look for is good lore, engaging story and some level of freedom that makes me feel I’m having an impact in that world. If AI can help with immersion and/or dynamic changes, I’m all for it. Of course, for that to happen they need to make sure it does stay in character and does not hallucinate something incoherent.
If there’s an AI chatbox that actually can stay coherent and be set up as a game without feeling like you have to input too many instructions to the AI to push the narrative (I think AI Dungeon gets close) then well, you could almost consider that being an RPG already. After all, the first RPGs were all text based. So I would already consider that the first iteration of AI-based RPG game. But translating that to a live 3D environment would be the next step.
So far research suggests the guardrail and hallucination problems are unsolvable, and we are seeing diminishing returns from increasing the complexity of these systems.
Hence devs will never have the necessary control required to author an actual narrative. NPCs will end up talking about mechanics that don’t exist, or saying things that contradict an overrall narrative.
Even with actual people, if you just throw them in a room and have the improv a world into existence, it never ends up quite as good as a properly authored narrative.
And LLMs are nowhere near achieving the level of internal consistency required for something like the worlds of Elden Ring or Mass Effect.
Baldur’s Gate 3 contains truly staggering amounts of writing, multiple times that of classical literary works. The hallucination problem means that if all that were AI generated, small parts of it might pass inspection, but trying to immerse yourself in it as a fictional world would have you noticing immersion breaking continuity errors left and right.
Edit: ugh, I lost myself in this reply. It’s just geeking about the future what could be possible, mostly not worth reading if you value your time.
This is one of the most exciting developments to me, the actual AI of bots or NPCs. Not only for RPG games, I can also envision multiplayer games to be more fun playing offline with bots. Imagine they act like humans, with their hearings and trying to trick you out in Mario Kart, Street Fighter and Counter Strike. Obviously we are long way from this, but this is very exciting to me.
Also GTA where people act normal and do stuff humans would probably try too is exciting as well. In RPGs imagine you hear about a hero in a village who defends its town and you recruit him, finding out its just a normal NPC for other players, but got strong because it found a holy weapon you dropped near to him in the beginning of the game. Just totally wild idea I know, but what if the future of games (probably 50 years from now… sheesh) is extremely rich and dynamic? I have no idea how this vision could be accomplished without AI and always server connection to power servers…
Instead of generative AI for game assets, id much rather see something like a LLM in game that dynamically controls NPC behavior. That would be cool as hell.
Like an RPG where you can type what you want to say to an NPC instead of choosing a fixed dialogue tree.
When a bunch of RPGs start doing that, they are all just going to start feeling the same.
Only if they use it the same way and within the same context. But isn’t that what always happens when a new gaming system/idea explodes and clones start poping up? I don’t think that matters much, in fact competition might actually be a good thing.
I guess I just don’t see the appeal. If I wanted to interact with an AI, I can do it right now without launching a game to do it. And pointless NPCs are already one of the most annoying parts of games for me. I don’t want to waste my time reading meaningless dialogue from 100 characters trying to find the 1 person who will actually let me advance and continue playing the game. It will be even worse when they are all taking an unlimited stream of shit instead of 1 or 2 canned responses, because it will just be even harder to know who is wasting your time.
As with all things, it will come down to how its used and the prompt.
For instance, filler characters could have a built in plan tonger more abrasive and use shorter responses when engaged.
The plot can still be set and the dialogue is used to advance that, however you choose to proceed.
I’m sure some will be seamless and great. Others will be clunky. Its not the tool, but how its used. If generative AI is just used to make assets and dialogue instead of paying artists, it will be crappy. If artists use it to plan characters and plots that flow more freely but still allow engagement and sandbox, it’ll be awesome.
To each their own. For me, a good lore and dialog is what makes a good RPG stand out.
If I want action and reflexes, I’d go play an action game. If I want strategy, I’d go for a puzzle game, or a 4X, deckbuilder, etc. But in a proper RPG what I look for is good lore, engaging story and some level of freedom that makes me feel I’m having an impact in that world. If AI can help with immersion and/or dynamic changes, I’m all for it. Of course, for that to happen they need to make sure it does stay in character and does not hallucinate something incoherent.
If there’s an AI chatbox that actually can stay coherent and be set up as a game without feeling like you have to input too many instructions to the AI to push the narrative (I think AI Dungeon gets close) then well, you could almost consider that being an RPG already. After all, the first RPGs were all text based. So I would already consider that the first iteration of AI-based RPG game. But translating that to a live 3D environment would be the next step.
Not gonna happen. Not really.
So far research suggests the guardrail and hallucination problems are unsolvable, and we are seeing diminishing returns from increasing the complexity of these systems.
Hence devs will never have the necessary control required to author an actual narrative. NPCs will end up talking about mechanics that don’t exist, or saying things that contradict an overrall narrative.
Even with actual people, if you just throw them in a room and have the improv a world into existence, it never ends up quite as good as a properly authored narrative.
And LLMs are nowhere near achieving the level of internal consistency required for something like the worlds of Elden Ring or Mass Effect.
Baldur’s Gate 3 contains truly staggering amounts of writing, multiple times that of classical literary works. The hallucination problem means that if all that were AI generated, small parts of it might pass inspection, but trying to immerse yourself in it as a fictional world would have you noticing immersion breaking continuity errors left and right.
I want to see that too. Guaranteed to go off the rails aat the moment. Like what does the NPC reply to “I be fartin’ loud as fuck on metal chairs”?
I’ve seen some cool controlled demos though.
Maybe it would say “wtf are you saying, try asking me about the haunted manor instead”
Edit: ugh, I lost myself in this reply. It’s just geeking about the future what could be possible, mostly not worth reading if you value your time.
This is one of the most exciting developments to me, the actual AI of bots or NPCs. Not only for RPG games, I can also envision multiplayer games to be more fun playing offline with bots. Imagine they act like humans, with their hearings and trying to trick you out in Mario Kart, Street Fighter and Counter Strike. Obviously we are long way from this, but this is very exciting to me.
Also GTA where people act normal and do stuff humans would probably try too is exciting as well. In RPGs imagine you hear about a hero in a village who defends its town and you recruit him, finding out its just a normal NPC for other players, but got strong because it found a holy weapon you dropped near to him in the beginning of the game. Just totally wild idea I know, but what if the future of games (probably 50 years from now… sheesh) is extremely rich and dynamic? I have no idea how this vision could be accomplished without AI and always server connection to power servers…