And how exactly would you do that? One giant database of sales that everyone just has access to? Print it on the thing at time of sale? I can’t see any trivial solution, I’d be interested in yours tho!
I don’t see why everyone needs access, it could just be kept with the Department of Energy (or whoever would be in charge of the proposed universal deposit program). Accessing it would require a court order, just like digging through someone’s trash.
Although that said, an open database of every single purchase would have all sorts of uses!
For instance, if someone litters, the authorities could track the unique code to the purchase and then… well. 🙂
If you want to sell a product you would have to register that deposit in the database, similarly if you get it back you have to access the database to know how much to pay out. If you don’t want to limit selling products to large businesses everyone needs access.
Sure, consequences for littering are fun and all, but the passive surveillance that allows is terrifying imho.
Oh, no. I’m quite aware. The companies that can do it have a large enough effect in my life as it is. I really do not wish for scammers, random trolls, foreign government or home invader (tracking where you are based on purchases) to join them.
Right now I can make it hard for the big players by using the right tools and services. This would make it completely impossible.
How the hell are scammers, random trolls, or foreign governments going to do that with a token that says the date when you bought something? Especially if the key to decrypt the token is held by the DoE!
If the key is only held by the doe then how are you ever going to get that deposit? Bring your trash to them? If not then everyone needs to have access, which means no encryption.
One could of course feasibly leave out who bought the thing. To prevent fraud though you would probably have to save what the thing is (otherwise someone will just produce trash in China with valid token IDs from the database just to get the deposit) and having a database of that is in it self a very bad thing for businesses at least. You don’t want your competitors to know exactly how much you are selling, otherwise you will definitely get bought out at your lowest point.
Maintaining such a database would be a nightmare too, and all that just to make sure the tokens do fall in value with inflation? I don’t see the point really. Either fix the value for a couple of years, or let it rise through inflation that would incentivize the collection of old garbage at least.
You are right, machines could work for smaller/standardized stuff 🤔
As for scammers, since kind of fake recall where you have to for some reason pay something in advance probably. But trust scammers and grifters to figure something out, they always do.
And how exactly would you do that? One giant database of sales that everyone just has access to? Print it on the thing at time of sale? I can’t see any trivial solution, I’d be interested in yours tho!
I don’t see why everyone needs access, it could just be kept with the Department of Energy (or whoever would be in charge of the proposed universal deposit program). Accessing it would require a court order, just like digging through someone’s trash.
Although that said, an open database of every single purchase would have all sorts of uses!
For instance, if someone litters, the authorities could track the unique code to the purchase and then… well. 🙂
If you want to sell a product you would have to register that deposit in the database, similarly if you get it back you have to access the database to know how much to pay out. If you don’t want to limit selling products to large businesses everyone needs access.
Sure, consequences for littering are fun and all, but the passive surveillance that allows is terrifying imho.
Do you think that kind of surveillance isn’t already happening with credit card companies, online shopping, and chain stores?
Oh, no. I’m quite aware. The companies that can do it have a large enough effect in my life as it is. I really do not wish for scammers, random trolls, foreign government or home invader (tracking where you are based on purchases) to join them.
Right now I can make it hard for the big players by using the right tools and services. This would make it completely impossible.
How the hell are scammers, random trolls, or foreign governments going to do that with a token that says the date when you bought something? Especially if the key to decrypt the token is held by the DoE!
If the key is only held by the doe then how are you ever going to get that deposit? Bring your trash to them? If not then everyone needs to have access, which means no encryption. One could of course feasibly leave out who bought the thing. To prevent fraud though you would probably have to save what the thing is (otherwise someone will just produce trash in China with valid token IDs from the database just to get the deposit) and having a database of that is in it self a very bad thing for businesses at least. You don’t want your competitors to know exactly how much you are selling, otherwise you will definitely get bought out at your lowest point.
Maintaining such a database would be a nightmare too, and all that just to make sure the tokens do fall in value with inflation? I don’t see the point really. Either fix the value for a couple of years, or let it rise through inflation that would incentivize the collection of old garbage at least.
Deposit machines, which are already in wide use, could automatically read the token.
I guess someone could hack the machine? Other than that, though, it seems secure.
And also I’m not sure how knowing the date I bought a Pepsi could be useful for scammers.
You are right, machines could work for smaller/standardized stuff 🤔
As for scammers, since kind of fake recall where you have to for some reason pay something in advance probably. But trust scammers and grifters to figure something out, they always do.