Is this for real? I can’t draw no other conclusion than US defaultism in trans activism gives a free pass to TERF politics in Europe. This kind of news from Germany cannot mean anything good.
According to Wikipedia:
In 2019, the German Language Association VDS (Verein Deutsche Sprache; not to be confused with the Association for the German Language Gesellschaft für deutsche Sprache, GfdS) launched a petition against the use of the gender star, saying it was a “destructive intrusion” into the German language and created “ridiculous linguistic structures”. It was signed by over 100 writers and scholars.[11] Luise F. Pusch, a German feminist linguist, criticises the gender star as it still makes women the ‘second choice’ by the use of the feminine suffix.[12] In 2020, the Gesellschaft für deutsche Sprache declared Gendersternchen to be one of the 10 German Words of the Year.[13]
In 2023, the state of Saxony banned the use of gender stars and gender gaps in schools and education, which marks students’ use of the gender stars as incorrect.[14][15] In March 2024, Bavaria banned gender-neutral language in schools, universities and several other public authorities.[16][17] In April 2024, Hesse banned the use of gender neutral language, including gender stars, in administrative language.[18]
Here are the original Wikipedia references
- “Der Aufruf und seine Erstunterzeichner”. Verein Deutsche Sprache (in German). 6 March 2019. Retrieved 5 April 2020.
- Schlüter, Nadja (22 April 2019). ““Das Gendersternchen ist nicht die richtige Lösung””. Jetzt.de (in German). Retrieved 5 April 2020. “GfdS Wort des Jahres” (in German). Retrieved 13 December 2020.
- Jones, Sam; Willsher, Kim; Oltermann, Philip; Giuffrida, Angela (2023-11-04). “What’s in a word? How less-gendered language is faring across Europe”. The Guardian. ISSN 0261-3077. Retrieved 2024-04-05.
- “Schools in Saxony are forbidden to use gender language”. cne.news. Retrieved 2024-04-05.
I got into this rabbit hole from this news article
@whydudothatdrcrane No, gender neutral pronouns are not banned. What is banned is the Binnen-I (Mitarbeiter*innen). It is recommended to use much easier to read Mitarbeiter und Mitarbeiterinnen or Mitarbeitende. Also the belittled version Mitarbeiterchen is gender neutral and allowed.
As a person regularly writing regular expressions, the usage of
*in a written language rubs me the wrong way. I wouldn’t mind Mitarbeiter/innen, similar to how Czech does it (prodavač/ka, although some are impossible to shorten like skladník/skladnice, as skladník/ce sounds too weird, much like Krankenschwester*innen would).The statement speaks for itself.
Der Begriff ist eh obsolte, ist nun Krankenpfleger.
I think you mean Krankenpfleger*in
I have the “Binnen-I be gone” extension install :(
Drats, my plan is foiled!
Auch, wenn es sich um Kategorie abartige Kostüme handelt?
(Ist “abartig” das richtige Wort? Der Übersetzungsdienst, den ich normal verwende, bietet etwas anderes an.)
I don’t know but I wouldn’t be surprised if those words are the reason for the
*being included on the keyboard in the first place 😅Multiplication. It’s why it’s on the numpad.
Also, normal non-technical text also never uses these keyboard characters
@^\|_` but they are there. If the computer keyboard was designed for proper typography, there would be keys fornbsp, curly quotes or the em dash.Wouldn’t it make more sense just to use
×instead if that was the case? I guess maybe it makes it easier to differentiate it fromx?I guess it’s probably just a hold over from typewriters that ended up setting the standard for computers e.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_2741
This right here is the exact reason, especially because
xis frequently used as a variable which may be sitting directly nex to×.I understand this is a fine point. What is the status report on gender legislation in Germany then? Is this isolated from broader anti-trans politics as a matter of language puritanism and aesthetics?
These laws are only applicable in two of Germany’s 16 states and only for state officials and authorities as well as schools. The other states mostly critize those states for infringing on equality rights. It just bans the use of gender related punctuations in written documents and school exams. It’s not well thought out.
You can still use gender neutral terms (Lehrende instead of Lehrer*innen). It’s a big deal as those states do it to cater to right-wing voters and fish them from the nazi-party AFD.
Btw Binnen-I is LehrerInnen. Other gender neutral notations are a “*”, “_” or “:”
I think it just makes the german language ugly and still keeps the female version of a word as a second choice. Grammatically speaking I believe just common masculine version of a word which is supposed to speak for everyone involved just makes more sense. If we want gender equality we shouldn’t highlight the different genders more and make the female version the second choice, but thats just my opinion
Arguing that the female version makes it a second choice and then erasing it completely makes absolutely no sense. If german was a language with no difference in gender this might work, but that’s not what it is. We have female forms for most nouns so this will not work. A gender asterisk includes all genders. The argument that it puts female form second is also week as in german the emphasis of a word is usually on the last syllable.
Like it or not, our way of talking and writing is excluding people and is biasing our perception as to which things (especially jobs) are mainly male and what are female. There are enough studies about language and gender bias out there.
Words have power and we should take it seriously.
If I write job/*in that puts an emphasis on how the jobs default is a male person, with that weird female inclusivity attached. If we just accepted that the gender neutral way is the common masculine form which applies regardless of the gender I think its more beneficial.
@whydudothatdrcrane There are only two relevant parties who are against gender neutrality: The Nazis from AfD and CxU. I also don*t like the Binnen-I and use an browser extension to fix that for me.
Krankenschwester is already female the offical Job name is Krankenpflegefachkraft (which is already neutral).
I see. Probably most North-Americans would confuse “gender-neutral” with “non-binary inclusive”.
That’s a north American problem though. German settled on nouns that are more like “the ones who X”. Like, Studierende instead of Studenten and Studentinnen. (The last two are just “students” in their gender specific form. The first one literally translated means “the ones who study”)
The gender star is anything but gender neutral. It highlight the different genders artificially and still makes the female variant of the word the second choice by separating it like this /* This differentiates it from the default general masculine word which is supposed to include everybody and further strengthens the image of the man as the default in a certain job. I’m sorry but I strongly disagree with you on this one.
And for non-Native german speakers, if this sounds confusing that is because it is!