No, but I’m still disgusted by the amount of gaslighting we got for the last 8 months. All Harris had to do was make a plan to end the war, but she… didn’t. And some liberals want to call it our (people who didn’t vote for her) fault.
More Palestinians will die under Trump. More Americans will suffer under Trump. More people around the world will suffer with a Trump presidency. But at least you showed the democrats…
Granted, Biden did almost nothing to slow it down, and kept Israel well supplied with the weapons of genocide. Do you really think it’s a coincidence that Netanyahu waited until the day after the election to announce that Palestinians won’t be allowed to return to northern Gaza though?
Granted, that was almost certainly the plan all along, but now even the fig leaf is gone. Without the need to devote any thought at all to political cover, Israel will stop even pretending to internal investigations of accusations against their own soldiers and redeploy those resources to the battlefield.
The number of Palestinian deaths may not be different, but they’ll die even sooner.
There was never a fig leaf. They already didn’t need to devote any attention to political cover, the USA already made it clear that it wouldn’t tolerate holding Israel or any of the Israeli politicians accountable in international courts.
The difference between the two is purely in wording and absolutely immaterial. If anything, trump is being more honest about it.
Trump is terrible for other reasons, but they’re both equal in this matter
Literally does not matter. They’re all demons, and they all maximise the suffering they inflict. If someone knew how to create more suffering, they’d share their secrets with the rest.
Exactly. It was a douche and a turd sandwich. Refusing to vote because “they’re a turd sandwich” is simply saying “I’m okay with the douche”. It’s a 2 party system. There are no good candidates. Only one that’s marginally better than the other. Not voting is tacitly voting for the worst one.
Not a USAmerican, but by that logic:
Are Kamala, her party and her supporters who couldn’t get those people to vote for Kamala also responsible for the increased suffering?
Are they responsible for the people not being convinced that the suffering would be lesser under Kamala?
Did Kamala and party show significant effort and good faith to woo those people?
Or was it the 99% Hitler vs 100% Hitler thing? Asking since most online discourse I saw on it here in lemmy was like that, where they’re saying Trump would be worse, instead of saying that Kamala would be better, de-escalate stuff etc.
If that’s how they place the blame, then that’d be cool.
But other than that, in reality, it likely seems to become a blame game, where they don’t want to look at why they lost the trust of the folk who they are blaming.
Though, I’m just seeing online interactions. Maybe offline interactions are much more decent and useful.
The Dem establishment will obviously blame anyone but themselves. That’s what establishments do. That’s why, assuming there are still free and fair elections in America in two years time, left wing voters in the US need to start planning now how they’re going to primary out every last establishment Dem who thought that leaning right was the answer, and replace them with people who do believe in real progressive politics.
It won’t work everywhere. It can’t. And some of those people will inevitably get caught up in the machine, or turn out not to be what they claimed. Reality is messy. But get enough of them in and you can make a real difference. The mid-terms are the American left’s opportunity to do what the right did in 2010.
But at the end of the day none of this matters, because we’re just two outsiders pontificating over another country’s politics. Despite how deeply those politics affect the whole world, there’s nothing we can actually do about it, other than focusing on what we can do in our own back yards.
Oopsie, when writing my comment I deleted my first attempt as I was going on and on forever and decided I was just gonna copy paste what I found previously.
It looks like after deleting the draft I clicked reply on your comment by accident instead of whathever I wanted to reply to.
The human body was not made for mobile devices and tiny touch buttons.
Thank you for letting me notice this, I’ll see if I find the other comment I wanted to reply to.
How did you think this election was gonna go? You think there was still gonna be enough votes for Harris? Or that by some miracle a 3rd party candidate was gonna be elected?
People with your mindset are just as guilty as the dems are. No weasling out of this shitpile were now stuck in
For my part, I’m not sure it is, though lack of votes didn’t help. The meme is perhaps meanspirited so soon after the painful news, but here’s my question, and this is genuine: now what?
Trump will get to pick a bunch of lower federal judges and probably two more SCOTUS judges. What’s the way out when it seems to me that he and his jackals control the military, the police, and the judiciary? Seems like a hopeless setup to me.
If we manage to avoid a fascist takeover, it will be in spite of the naive progressive idealogues who think they have the privilege to vote their conscience.
It’s… almost as if you do need to earn people’s votes after all. Everyone already spelled everything out to you almost a year ago on changes the Dems could make but still you’re wondering what Step 2 is?!?
Dems: We’ve tried nothing and are all out of ideas!, Third party, absolutely not!
Ew, you went through my post history from almost a year ago? Gross and creepy. No wonder y’all can’t win converts to your cause if that’s how you behave.
who’s y’all and what are they trying to convert you too? Are ‘they’ in the room with you right now?
Glad you aren’t addressing any of the critiques and just gonna continue living the meme. Also, you should learn that there’s a neat little feature called sorting, there’s a controversial selection that’s really handy for shit takes to pop up in the first few comments!
I’m most definitely looking at the complainers right now to see if they’re actually listening or have just been harping the same shit for a year and now trying to blame everyone else for the problem. We need to flush out this “woe is me” crap, as if people haven’t been wondering for decades how they’re going to be protected or how could democracy possibly survive in such a capitalistic and corrupt system.
D’s lost, I wanna get back on the field and train with new strategies and directions. There’s just a bunch of butt hurt locker boys who wanna complain about members of the team instead of learning to work together in a different way.
I’m surprised to see an antinatalist support Harris. Seems morally inconsistent, though perhaps not from a consequentialist perspective. I’ve been blocking everyone sharing your sentiment, but I don’t wanna block one of the few antinatalists here, so I’m commenting instead
Is Harris’ loss my fault because I voted for De La Cruz? She could have easily earned my vote, but tried to court centrists and conservative voters instead.
Being an accelerationist makes even more your fault. It is bullshit the primary was skipped, but no progressives even tried to run there so you would have a similar choice.
No, but I’m still disgusted by the amount of gaslighting we got for the last 8 months. All Harris had to do was make a plan to end the war, but she… didn’t. And some liberals want to call it our (people who didn’t vote for her) fault.
More Palestinians will die under Trump. More Americans will suffer under Trump. More people around the world will suffer with a Trump presidency. But at least you showed the democrats…
It’s almost like the tankies just want what’s bad for America and don’t actually care about palestine or human rights.
Unlike you who never cared for Palestine and actively defends Israel.
What will trump do to cause more Palestinian deaths?
What COULD he do?
Israel is already getting everything they wanted, and facing zero consequences or obstacles.
I don’t disagree with you wrt American deaths, but that’s not what this post is about
Granted, Biden did almost nothing to slow it down, and kept Israel well supplied with the weapons of genocide. Do you really think it’s a coincidence that Netanyahu waited until the day after the election to announce that Palestinians won’t be allowed to return to northern Gaza though?
Granted, that was almost certainly the plan all along, but now even the fig leaf is gone. Without the need to devote any thought at all to political cover, Israel will stop even pretending to internal investigations of accusations against their own soldiers and redeploy those resources to the battlefield.
The number of Palestinian deaths may not be different, but they’ll die even sooner.
The Generals plan is in full full force. Netanyahu has already fully cleansed north Gaza.
JOE BIDEN IS STILL THE PRESIDENT RIGHT NOW.
There was never a fig leaf. They already didn’t need to devote any attention to political cover, the USA already made it clear that it wouldn’t tolerate holding Israel or any of the Israeli politicians accountable in international courts.
The difference between the two is purely in wording and absolutely immaterial. If anything, trump is being more honest about it.
Trump is terrible for other reasons, but they’re both equal in this matter
Literally does not matter. They’re all demons, and they all maximise the suffering they inflict. If someone knew how to create more suffering, they’d share their secrets with the rest.
So, it was worth Trump getting a second term in order for you to maintain your moral purity?
Listen, fuck Harris and every other Dem who failed to condemn the war in Gaza, they all deserve to burn in hell for that.
But did you really get what you wanted out of this?
Exactly. It was a douche and a turd sandwich. Refusing to vote because “they’re a turd sandwich” is simply saying “I’m okay with the douche”. It’s a 2 party system. There are no good candidates. Only one that’s marginally better than the other. Not voting is tacitly voting for the worst one.
Removed by mod
Not a USAmerican, but by that logic:
Are Kamala, her party and her supporters who couldn’t get those people to vote for Kamala also responsible for the increased suffering?
Are they responsible for the people not being convinced that the suffering would be lesser under Kamala?
Did Kamala and party show significant effort and good faith to woo those people?
Or was it the 99% Hitler vs 100% Hitler thing? Asking since most online discourse I saw on it here in lemmy was like that, where they’re saying Trump would be worse, instead of saying that Kamala would be better, de-escalate stuff etc.
Yes, they are morally culpable too. Even more so than the people who refused to vote for them.
That’s the thing about ethics when you actually apply it in reality; someone else being wrong doesn’t mean you’re right.
If that’s how they place the blame, then that’d be cool.
But other than that, in reality, it likely seems to become a blame game, where they don’t want to look at why they lost the trust of the folk who they are blaming.
Though, I’m just seeing online interactions. Maybe offline interactions are much more decent and useful.
The Dem establishment will obviously blame anyone but themselves. That’s what establishments do. That’s why, assuming there are still free and fair elections in America in two years time, left wing voters in the US need to start planning now how they’re going to primary out every last establishment Dem who thought that leaning right was the answer, and replace them with people who do believe in real progressive politics.
It won’t work everywhere. It can’t. And some of those people will inevitably get caught up in the machine, or turn out not to be what they claimed. Reality is messy. But get enough of them in and you can make a real difference. The mid-terms are the American left’s opportunity to do what the right did in 2010.
But at the end of the day none of this matters, because we’re just two outsiders pontificating over another country’s politics. Despite how deeply those politics affect the whole world, there’s nothing we can actually do about it, other than focusing on what we can do in our own back yards.
there’s plenty of blame to go around; no 1, 2, or 3 people or groups are to blame
best we can hope for now is for netanyahu to bruise the orange ego somehow and find out what petty retaliation looks like
Increased suffering?
How can their suffering be increased more than it is now?
Israel is already getting everything could have ever wished for. There is nothing trump could do to make that worse.
There were other reasons to vote for Harris, but this wasn’t one.
Edit: looks like I replied under the wrong comment. Sorry about that. :)
deleted by creator
What exactly do you think my current position is?
Oopsie, when writing my comment I deleted my first attempt as I was going on and on forever and decided I was just gonna copy paste what I found previously. It looks like after deleting the draft I clicked reply on your comment by accident instead of whathever I wanted to reply to. The human body was not made for mobile devices and tiny touch buttons.
Thank you for letting me notice this, I’ll see if I find the other comment I wanted to reply to.
How did you think this election was gonna go? You think there was still gonna be enough votes for Harris? Or that by some miracle a 3rd party candidate was gonna be elected?
People with your mindset are just as guilty as the dems are. No weasling out of this shitpile were now stuck in
For my part, I’m not sure it is, though lack of votes didn’t help. The meme is perhaps meanspirited so soon after the painful news, but here’s my question, and this is genuine: now what?
Trump will get to pick a bunch of lower federal judges and probably two more SCOTUS judges. What’s the way out when it seems to me that he and his jackals control the military, the police, and the judiciary? Seems like a hopeless setup to me.
Harris lost, so what’s Step 2?
Step 2 is support third parties
I appreciate your answers, but I still don’t follow the logic. Thanks anyway.
and then they continue to get <5% and trump gets another term… then what?
Oh no, mean spirited comments that don’t actually add anything useful!!
This you?
It’s… almost as if you do need to earn people’s votes after all. Everyone already spelled everything out to you almost a year ago on changes the Dems could make but still you’re wondering what Step 2 is?!?
Dems: We’ve tried nothing and are all out of ideas!, Third party, absolutely not!
Ew, you went through my post history from almost a year ago? Gross and creepy. No wonder y’all can’t win converts to your cause if that’s how you behave.
who’s y’all and what are they trying to convert you too? Are ‘they’ in the room with you right now?
Glad you aren’t addressing any of the critiques and just gonna continue living the meme. Also, you should learn that there’s a neat little feature called sorting, there’s a controversial selection that’s really handy for shit takes to pop up in the first few comments!
I’m most definitely looking at the complainers right now to see if they’re actually listening or have just been harping the same shit for a year and now trying to blame everyone else for the problem. We need to flush out this “woe is me” crap, as if people haven’t been wondering for decades how they’re going to be protected or how could democracy possibly survive in such a capitalistic and corrupt system.
D’s lost, I wanna get back on the field and train with new strategies and directions. There’s just a bunch of butt hurt locker boys who wanna complain about members of the team instead of learning to work together in a different way.
It is your fault.
I’m surprised to see an antinatalist support Harris. Seems morally inconsistent, though perhaps not from a consequentialist perspective. I’ve been blocking everyone sharing your sentiment, but I don’t wanna block one of the few antinatalists here, so I’m commenting instead
Is Harris’ loss my fault because I voted for De La Cruz? She could have easily earned my vote, but tried to court centrists and conservative voters instead.
Being an accelerationist makes even more your fault. It is bullshit the primary was skipped, but no progressives even tried to run there so you would have a similar choice.
I wasn’t asking you. I don’t have a problem blocking you