Summary

Tipping in America has expanded into unexpected areas, with 72% of Americans saying it is expected in more places than five years ago, according to Pew Research.

While tipping can release feel-good neurotransmitters, a Bankrate survey found two-thirds of Americans now view it negatively, and one-third feel it’s “out of control.”

Critics highlight issues like social pressure and wage inequality, while businesses attempting no-tipping models, like a New York wine bar, have struggled to sustain them.

Many believe tipping culture has become excessive, with calls for reform growing.

  • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    40
    ·
    17 days ago

    what is your response to businesses like those mentioned in the article that tried a no-tip model and could not sustain it?

    That they don’t have a viable business.

    • papalonian@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      17 days ago

      I mean, yeah. Obviously. But to the other businesses or potential business owners that want to try a tipless model, that see these businesses failing, that’s not very encouraging or helping to figure out what the underlying issue is. If people are trying to do a good thing but can’t quite figure out how to make it work, should we just say, “guess you’re not very good at this” and continue giving business to the places asking for tips, or should we try to look into what’s going on?

      • skulblaka@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        15 days ago

        What you do is you legally mandate a minimum wage, require businesses to respect that or else get shut down by the labor board, and then if you still can’t make a profit then yeah, sucks. Should have planned better.

        The underlying issue is that companies are allowed and encouraged to pay well below the minimum wage because tips make up the difference. This was a stupid idea from the very beginning, and was born shortly after the Civil War when the FLSA ruled that companies could do this so that they didn’t have to pay newly-freed slaves a fair wage. Remove that and you remove the problem. American tip/gratuity law spits directly in the face of our own fair labor standards.

        The problem you’re describing comes from trying to do this piecemeal and let the free market push the demand, but the free market isn’t going to do that when cheaper options are available. Even if those cheaper options are built on exploitation. So trying to eliminate tips in your restaurant when the restaurant next door is still on tipped wages is asking for disaster. But if everyone were forced to change at the same time due to change in legislation then you don’t have this problem.

        The price of eating out at restaurants will increase, but of course it will, you aren’t going to dodge that no matter how we address this problem.

        • papalonian@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          15 days ago

          Thank you for giving a thought out response to my question. I wholeheartedly agree that tip culture, as it is, is garbage. I think being able to tip is very appropriate in certain scenarios, like at a bar where the bartender is very friendly and charismatic (and is bringing in repeat customers) they should be able to receive tips. But I guess at the same time,

          I actually changed my mindset halfway writing this comment. No; I, the customer, should not be paying the bartender more for giving me a more pleasant experience than the bartender next door. The bar owner should be reinvesting the additional profits brought in by the better bartender into said bartender’s salary and increase their wage that way. Tipping the better bartender gives them a raise at no cost to the establishment, which is ok for the bartender, great for the bar, bad for the consumer.

    • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      17 days ago

      I don’t think you understand the competitive pressure of every other restaurant not raising their menu prices 20% alongside you. Do you think that a business isn’t viable if they can’t absorb a 20% labor increase without raising prices?

      I suspect you are not a reliable or competent business analyst.

      • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        17 days ago

        I don’t think you understand my stance on the issue. Why would you assume that I think a restaurant should stop accepting tips while everyone else does, and also not raise their prices? You are making a lot of assumptions about what I think.

        • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          17 days ago

          You are combining the two distinct possibilities I referenced as consequences for a restaurant that stops accepting tips:

          1. Raise menu prices, lose business to competitors

          2. Do not raise prices, fail by not covering expenses

          Either way, it’s not sustainable to voluntarily go tipless, which is why those who tried, revert. You’re the one that said that made them unviable. Did you mean to say something else?

          • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            17 days ago

            I said that a business which cannot survive without tips is not viable. I did not comment on what other changes might be required.

            • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              17 days ago

              Then the vast majority of restaurants are not viable. Again, your business analysis is not viable. An opinion that ignores fundamental aspects of the trade space isn’t worth the cost to light the pixels to display it.

              • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                17 days ago

                I’ll admit, I don’t have numbers on hand, but I’m gonna bet money that the vast majority of restaurants in the world do not have tips and they are chugging along fine enough. The USA is not the center of the universe.

                • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  16 days ago

                  No it is not but it is the geographic market we’re talking about, one of those fundamental factors of the trade space. It’s like telling someone in Arizona that they don’t need A/C because people in Alaska chug along just fine without A/C. The conditions of one region do not translate to all regions.

                  The USA restaurant industry is built on the expectation of tips. Restaurants that try to change, change back because raising menu prices alienates customers (even though it shouldn’t, this is what the research shows). If tipless restaurants are going to be broadly viable, tips must be eliminated across the board, which can only happen through legislation. Because, again, restaurants that switch voluntarily lose business to the restaurants that retain tipping.

                  • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    16 days ago

                    Maybe it’s the geographic market you’re talking about. I didn’t say anything about the States in my original or follow up premises.

                    Also, I don’t know if you think that second paragraph was supposed to be some kind of gotcha or something but, yeah. Get rid of the federal tipped wage, please.