There is no chance democrats will win any elections as long as people like yourself keep shitting on them. More democratic voters will stay home or vote republican or 3rd party and the GOP will get more power and our lives will get worse.
So, it’s not what Democrats do in office that matters. It’s not how they dodge and weave every question in every interview until nobody even remembers what was asked. Democrats lose because people are mean to them? Is nobody ever mean to Republicans then?
What democrats do does matter. That’s why we shouldn’t do the GOPs job for them by sowing apathy for democrats. Because that leads to the GOP gaining power. That’s why FUD exists.
Whatever apathy was down, Democrats did it to themselves. Our job right now is to crush the damn establishment that is intent on continuing to do it. They are trying to throw out a million reasons why this loss was anything but their fault, just so they can go back to business as usual. That cannot happen again.
If you think infighting hurts a party, then why the hell do the Republicans own all three branches? Infighting is critical to prepare the party and build a narrative where voters know what the party is about.
No, now is not the time to play nice with the establishment that got us here. They are lining up a new batch of clones as we speak.
If you want to help the Democrats, then get behind Ben Wikler (best option I’ve seen so far) out of Wisconsin for the DNC chair position. The establishment is going to try and quietly shuffle one of their useless clones while nobody is looking, so look, and tell everyone you know to look. Write to your Democratic representatives and tell them the party needs to find it’s feet again with actual leadership that knows how to connect with working class voters.
Republicans took all 3 branches because they don’t criticize their own party. And they attack anyone who does. And they show up to vote no matter what because they don’t get apathetic towards their own party.
What planet do you live on? Ever hear of the Lincoln Project? Do you not remember the Republicans throwing out their own Speaker of the House?
The turnout thing is accurate to a point, but is almost always (intentionally) misunderstood. The more left a voter gets, the more engaged they are, and the more likely they are to show up and vote for Democrats. That has been shown in multiple studies and is well understood even by establishment bobbleheads.
It’s the vast sea of disengaged and ideologically confused working class Americans that sometimes show up and sometimes don’t. We know how to reach these people, and the Democratic establishment just isn’t that interested. Their process is to message to these folks just enough to get 51% in swing states. That’s what keeps the margins so consistently tight, and Republicans win because reality doesn’t always conform to Democratic expectations.
In order to do better, Democrats have to be willing to anger their patrons. That’s not something they have been willing to do.
What was unique in this election is that the Republicans managed to pick up a lot of those voters. This election wasn’t swung by voter turnout. The unreliable voters turned out, but they turned out for Republicans. Democrats have now officially become the party of the wealthy,band Republicans are now the party of the working class. That’s obviously an insane disaster, and it’s pathetic that anyone is still defending the Democratic establishment.
The more left a voter gets, the more engaged they are, and the more likely they are to show up and vote for Democrats. That has been shown in multiple studies and is well understood even by establishment bobbleheads.
Care to share those studies?
It’s the vast sea of disengaged and ideologically confused working class Americans that sometimes show up and sometimes don’t.
What’s your source for this claim?
We know how to reach these people, and the Democratic establishment just isn’t that interested.
Who’s “we” and what makes you so confident that you know how to reach “these people”?
Their process is to message to these folks just enough to get 51% in swing states.
What’s your source for this claim?
In order to do better, Democrats have to be willing to anger their patrons.
Better in what way?
The unreliable voters turned out, but they turned out for Republicans.
Which indicates that these voters wanted someone furthest right. Meanwhile progressives claim the opposite is true: that democrats need to go further left.
That’s obviously an insane disaster, and it’s pathetic that anyone is still defending the Democratic establishment.
To not support democrats is to support republicans.
Why? Is your belief that progressives don’t show up based on anything but establishment talking points? But sure, I’ll do some work for you. See this Pew study.
Who’s “we” and what makes you so confident that you know how to reach “these people”?
Which indicates that these voters wanted someone furthest right.
Or, maybe the political universe can’t be captured in a single dimension. Most of the American public (barely) pays attention to politics for 3-4 months every 4 years. They aren’t exactly policy wonks. The dominant measure today is populist vs establishment. People don’t know what they believe, but they do know that neither party establishment gives two shits about them. They wanted a disruptor, and astoundingly they managed to figure out which candidate that was. Not that Trump will do shit for them, but they will learn that (again) soon enough.
Meanwhile progressives claim the opposite is true: that democrats need to go further left.
Do you know where left and right come from? It was the French parliament after the revolution. The left stood with the people, and the right stood with royalty. Democrats need to stand with the people. As I said above, left vs right political theory isn’t something that most voters (or politicians if we’re being honest) give a shit about. But, with growing inequality and corporate overreach, people do want politicians taking their sides. Trump had more leftist rhetoric than the Democrats.
To not support democrats is to support republicans.
Supporting Democrats and supporting the Democratic Establishment are two different things. I don’t give a shit about red vs blue, but I know that one party is more assailable than the other, so that’s where I look to make change for a better world.
Why? Is your belief that progressives don’t show up based on anything but establishment talking points? But sure, I’ll do some work for you. See this Pew study.
Nope, it’s based on the progressive talking point that democrats lost because Harris wasn’t far enough left. You’re not doing work for me. I didn’t make the claim. If you can’t be bothered to back up your own claims then they aren’t worth anything.
Progressives, this, and this.
Maybe I’m missing something but I don’t see any source for that map. How did they get the numbers? What are the numbers? It just looks like someone colored a bunch of land and put some names on it. Not to mention it’s a Reddit post.
You’re confident that you know how to reach people that won’t vote democrat because of a town hall of Bernie? I must be missing something.
Um, get votes? I thought that was pretty obvious.
I’m not going to debate based on assumptions. Use your words.
Or, maybe the political universe can’t be captured in a single dimension.
Voters chose the candidate furthest to the right, it doesn’t get any more conclusive than that when it comes to whether voters want a candidate that’s further left.
Do you know where left and right come from?
The origins of left and right dont change anything. Just to be clear, I’d vote for a more progressive candidate. But they wouldn’t win in my red state. Moderates have won before though because they get a mix of voters that is larger than just right or left. And if our democracy is on the line then it isn’t time to let perfection be the enemy of progress.
If progressives keep sowing apathy for the Democratic Party then less people will vote democrat and the GOP will keep growing in power. That is, if we get to vote again, considering Trumps rhetoric.
Supporting Democrats and supporting the Democratic Establishment are two different things. I don’t give a shit about red vs blue, but I know that one party is more assailable than the other, so that’s where I look to make change for a better world.
Same here. But I don’t sow apathy for the better option because that gives voters a reason to not vote for that option and it doesn’t take a lot of voters staying home to lose an election.
There is no chance democrats will win any elections as long as people like yourself keep shitting on them.
For decades, they’ve had chance after chance to prove themselves to the working class. Now, you dare suggest that the corporatist Christo-fascists will win if we don’t keep voting in the same corporatist neo-liberal celebrity-fellators?
If the DNC establishment doesn’t get tossed out on their ass during the next committee same primary election cycle, the average citizen is fucked.
We are already fucked. Fascism already won. We had to chose between democrats and fascism and people like yourself shit on democrats enough to convince enough voters to either stay home or vote Trump or 3rd party. Letting perfection be the enemy of progress. There’s no going back now.
people like yourself shit on democrats enough to convince enough voters to either stay home or vote Trump or 3rd party.
You don’t know anything about me. Furthermore, I don’t think you’re comprehending what I’m saying. Simply put, the Democratic establishment needs to be tossed out on their ass for gross incompetence. The way that’s done is the vote for the DNC and the next round of primaries.
Again, I don’t advocate for apathy. I advocate for ousting the establishment DNC leadership by voting. Your reading comprehension sucks, or your half-assed trolling is obvious.
How do we “oust establishment DNC” by voting? Who is the establishment DNC? Are you saying we need to vote for the opposition? We need to vote in the primary? Haven’t we already been doing that? How do we know who is establishment and who isn’t?
You’re being vague and claiming my reading comprehension sucks because your aren’t actually saying anything.
I’ve pinched my nose and voted for Democrats my whole adult life in every election, donated to campaigns, voted in primaries, written to representatives and senators, been a member of a Union, and attended town halls, marches, and rallies. Don’t ever talk to me about apathy.
Go to and participate in the candidate forums in January. Ask pointed questions about what their strategy to contend with the GOP will be in light of the recent defeats. Watch who votes for who in the February DNC chair election.
Get the word out and vote in the primaries against representatives who willingly fellate corporatists and/or dance around the glaring failures of strategy, messaging, or are complicit in the disenfranchisement of the working class.
But honestly, anything I say will be just more food for your trolling, or you’re butt-hurt when people call out failures and controlled opposition. Whatever it is, kick rocks barefoot.
I’ve pinched my nose and voted for Democrats my whole adult life in every election, donated to campaigns, voted in primaries, written to representatives and senators, been a member of a Union, and attended town halls, marches, and rallies. Don’t ever talk to me about apathy.
I’ve done those things too. Without spreading apathy. Come down off your high horse.
Here is the DNC leadership.
Here are the next contenders for DNC chair.
Here’s a site to track congressperson’s voting records.
Go to and participate in the candidate forums in January. Ask pointed questions about what their strategy to contend with the GOP will be in light of the recent defeats. Watch who votes for who in the February DNC chair election.
Get the word out and vote in the primaries against representatives who willingly fellate corporatists and/or dance around the glaring failures of strategy, messaging, or are complicit in the disenfranchisement of the working class.
This is actually a productive response that doesn’t involve sowing apathy towards the only alternative to fascism. Thanks, I’ll be doing these things and I’m being genuine when say that.
But honestly, anything I say will be just more food for your trolling, or you’re butt-hurt when people call out failures and controlled opposition. Whatever it is, kick rocks barefoot.
Aaaaaand you’re right back to cutting off your nose to spite your face. Maybe you’ve been unsuccessful in changing the Democratic Party despite all you’ve done because of your attitude.
There is no chance democrats will win any elections as long as people like yourself keep shitting on them. More democratic voters will stay home or vote republican or 3rd party and the GOP will get more power and our lives will get worse.
So, it’s not what Democrats do in office that matters. It’s not how they dodge and weave every question in every interview until nobody even remembers what was asked. Democrats lose because people are mean to them? Is nobody ever mean to Republicans then?
What democrats do does matter. That’s why we shouldn’t do the GOPs job for them by sowing apathy for democrats. Because that leads to the GOP gaining power. That’s why FUD exists.
Whatever apathy was down, Democrats did it to themselves. Our job right now is to crush the damn establishment that is intent on continuing to do it. They are trying to throw out a million reasons why this loss was anything but their fault, just so they can go back to business as usual. That cannot happen again.
If you think infighting hurts a party, then why the hell do the Republicans own all three branches? Infighting is critical to prepare the party and build a narrative where voters know what the party is about.
No, now is not the time to play nice with the establishment that got us here. They are lining up a new batch of clones as we speak.
If you want to help the Democrats, then get behind Ben Wikler (best option I’ve seen so far) out of Wisconsin for the DNC chair position. The establishment is going to try and quietly shuffle one of their useless clones while nobody is looking, so look, and tell everyone you know to look. Write to your Democratic representatives and tell them the party needs to find it’s feet again with actual leadership that knows how to connect with working class voters.
Republicans took all 3 branches because they don’t criticize their own party. And they attack anyone who does. And they show up to vote no matter what because they don’t get apathetic towards their own party.
What planet do you live on? Ever hear of the Lincoln Project? Do you not remember the Republicans throwing out their own Speaker of the House?
The turnout thing is accurate to a point, but is almost always (intentionally) misunderstood. The more left a voter gets, the more engaged they are, and the more likely they are to show up and vote for Democrats. That has been shown in multiple studies and is well understood even by establishment bobbleheads.
It’s the vast sea of disengaged and ideologically confused working class Americans that sometimes show up and sometimes don’t. We know how to reach these people, and the Democratic establishment just isn’t that interested. Their process is to message to these folks just enough to get 51% in swing states. That’s what keeps the margins so consistently tight, and Republicans win because reality doesn’t always conform to Democratic expectations.
In order to do better, Democrats have to be willing to anger their patrons. That’s not something they have been willing to do.
What was unique in this election is that the Republicans managed to pick up a lot of those voters. This election wasn’t swung by voter turnout. The unreliable voters turned out, but they turned out for Republicans. Democrats have now officially become the party of the wealthy,band Republicans are now the party of the working class. That’s obviously an insane disaster, and it’s pathetic that anyone is still defending the Democratic establishment.
Care to share those studies?
What’s your source for this claim?
Who’s “we” and what makes you so confident that you know how to reach “these people”?
What’s your source for this claim?
Better in what way?
Which indicates that these voters wanted someone furthest right. Meanwhile progressives claim the opposite is true: that democrats need to go further left.
To not support democrats is to support republicans.
Why? Is your belief that progressives don’t show up based on anything but establishment talking points? But sure, I’ll do some work for you. See this Pew study.
Progressives, this, and this.
Um, get votes? I thought that was pretty obvious.
Or, maybe the political universe can’t be captured in a single dimension. Most of the American public (barely) pays attention to politics for 3-4 months every 4 years. They aren’t exactly policy wonks. The dominant measure today is populist vs establishment. People don’t know what they believe, but they do know that neither party establishment gives two shits about them. They wanted a disruptor, and astoundingly they managed to figure out which candidate that was. Not that Trump will do shit for them, but they will learn that (again) soon enough.
Do you know where left and right come from? It was the French parliament after the revolution. The left stood with the people, and the right stood with royalty. Democrats need to stand with the people. As I said above, left vs right political theory isn’t something that most voters (or politicians if we’re being honest) give a shit about. But, with growing inequality and corporate overreach, people do want politicians taking their sides. Trump had more leftist rhetoric than the Democrats.
Supporting Democrats and supporting the Democratic Establishment are two different things. I don’t give a shit about red vs blue, but I know that one party is more assailable than the other, so that’s where I look to make change for a better world.
Nope, it’s based on the progressive talking point that democrats lost because Harris wasn’t far enough left. You’re not doing work for me. I didn’t make the claim. If you can’t be bothered to back up your own claims then they aren’t worth anything.
Maybe I’m missing something but I don’t see any source for that map. How did they get the numbers? What are the numbers? It just looks like someone colored a bunch of land and put some names on it. Not to mention it’s a Reddit post.
You’re confident that you know how to reach people that won’t vote democrat because of a town hall of Bernie? I must be missing something.
I’m not going to debate based on assumptions. Use your words.
Voters chose the candidate furthest to the right, it doesn’t get any more conclusive than that when it comes to whether voters want a candidate that’s further left.
The origins of left and right dont change anything. Just to be clear, I’d vote for a more progressive candidate. But they wouldn’t win in my red state. Moderates have won before though because they get a mix of voters that is larger than just right or left. And if our democracy is on the line then it isn’t time to let perfection be the enemy of progress.
If progressives keep sowing apathy for the Democratic Party then less people will vote democrat and the GOP will keep growing in power. That is, if we get to vote again, considering Trumps rhetoric.
Same here. But I don’t sow apathy for the better option because that gives voters a reason to not vote for that option and it doesn’t take a lot of voters staying home to lose an election.
For decades, they’ve had chance after chance to prove themselves to the working class. Now, you dare suggest that the corporatist Christo-fascists will win if we don’t keep voting in the same corporatist neo-liberal celebrity-fellators?
If the DNC establishment doesn’t get tossed out on their ass during the next committee same primary election cycle, the average citizen is fucked.
We are already fucked. Fascism already won. We had to chose between democrats and fascism and people like yourself shit on democrats enough to convince enough voters to either stay home or vote Trump or 3rd party. Letting perfection be the enemy of progress. There’s no going back now.
You don’t know anything about me. Furthermore, I don’t think you’re comprehending what I’m saying. Simply put, the Democratic establishment needs to be tossed out on their ass for gross incompetence. The way that’s done is the vote for the DNC and the next round of primaries.
Apathy caused democrats to lose voters in the 2024 election. Sowing more apathy won’t improve voter turnout.
Their shitty platform is what makes people apathetic. Stop blaming the person who’s just pointing at it.
So you’re saying the republicans won because their platform isn’t shitty?
No but their voters don’t care
You just can’t help yourself, can you?
You want to shit on our only alternative to fascism and then pretend you aren’t helping fascism win. Then claim anyone pointing that out is trolling.
Again, I don’t advocate for apathy. I advocate for ousting the establishment DNC leadership by voting. Your reading comprehension sucks, or your half-assed trolling is obvious.
How do we “oust establishment DNC” by voting? Who is the establishment DNC? Are you saying we need to vote for the opposition? We need to vote in the primary? Haven’t we already been doing that? How do we know who is establishment and who isn’t?
You’re being vague and claiming my reading comprehension sucks because your aren’t actually saying anything.
I’ve pinched my nose and voted for Democrats my whole adult life in every election, donated to campaigns, voted in primaries, written to representatives and senators, been a member of a Union, and attended town halls, marches, and rallies. Don’t ever talk to me about apathy.
Here is the DNC leadership.
Here are the next contenders for DNC chair.
Here’s a site to track congressperson’s voting records.
Go to and participate in the candidate forums in January. Ask pointed questions about what their strategy to contend with the GOP will be in light of the recent defeats. Watch who votes for who in the February DNC chair election.
Get the word out and vote in the primaries against representatives who willingly fellate corporatists and/or dance around the glaring failures of strategy, messaging, or are complicit in the disenfranchisement of the working class.
But honestly, anything I say will be just more food for your trolling, or you’re butt-hurt when people call out failures and controlled opposition. Whatever it is, kick rocks barefoot.
I’ve done those things too. Without spreading apathy. Come down off your high horse.
This is actually a productive response that doesn’t involve sowing apathy towards the only alternative to fascism. Thanks, I’ll be doing these things and I’m being genuine when say that.
Aaaaaand you’re right back to cutting off your nose to spite your face. Maybe you’ve been unsuccessful in changing the Democratic Party despite all you’ve done because of your attitude.