• Schmoo@slrpnk.net
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    4 months ago

    Revolutionary defeatism is just accelerationism with academic window dressing. Thinking that the defeat of western imperialism at the hands of Russian imperialism will improve revolutionary conditions is moronic and dangerous.

    • qevlarr@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      edit-2
      4 months ago

      I know this picture is from a Western propaganda film. Cry more lol

      And I get that NATO imperialism bad, but so is Russia invading Ukraine. No need to muddy the waters with “the Zelensky regime is illegitimate”, Russia fucking rolled their tanks right into another country that did not threaten them. But these shitheads suddenly can’t recognize imperialism. Again, outright military invasion, is somehow not imperialism 🤪🔨

      • carl_marks[use name]@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        4 months ago

        Can you kindly contextualize the MIC and it’s interest in NATO, Mearsheimer (a foreign policy hawk that loves war) saying its NATO agression, Biden joking in the 90s and knowing full well what NATO east expansion would mean, Putin going from friend to foe, Russia’s economy after the fall of the SU until now?

        outright military invasion, is somehow not imperialist

        Imperialism is when military intervention. The more militarier the intervention the imperialister it is

    • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      4 months ago

      No, accelerationism is vulgar deterministic Marxism, Revolutionary defeatism was invented by the Marxists who understood that to get socialism you need revolutionary conditions and a proletarian organization capable of taking advantage of those conditions.

      Thinking that the defeat of western imperialism at the hands of Russian imperialism will improve revolutionary conditions is moronic and dangerous.

      Growing multipolarity has already resulted in a lot of North Africa freeing itself from colonial domination: it has also created the conditions that allow for the economic isolation of the apartheid state of Israel.

      Get off your ivory tower and actually study the present conditions.

    • carl_marks[use name]@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      4 months ago

      You’re right we should be running dogs for western imperialism instead.

      And yes it will improve revolutionary conditions as the contradictions become more aparent (money for weapons and genocide is seemingly endlessly available, but not when it’s about housing, environment, healthcare, etc.). The only reason you see it as moronic and dangerous, is because you seem to live in a country that reaps the benefits of imperialism that grant you stability in life

      • Schmoo@slrpnk.net
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        4 months ago

        You’re right we should be running dogs for western imperialism instead.

        Ah yes, because there are only two options, you’re either a running dog for western imperialism or a running dog for Russian imperialism. But being a running dog for Russian imperialism is actually cool because it will lead to communism somehow. Don’t ask what happens in between, that’s not important…

        And yes it will improve revolutionary conditions as the contradictions become more aparent

        Wow that’s incredible, why don’t we just skip waiting for the imperialists to do it and carry out the genocide ourselves. That’ll really make those contradictions more apparent, I can’t wait!

        • carl_marks[use name]@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          4 months ago

          Ah yes, because there are only two options

          It’s almost like there isn’t, right? Could it be the “critical” part in “critical support”?

          Wow that’s incredible, why don’t we just skip waiting for the imperialists to do it and carry out the genocide ourselves.

          Your brain is melting wtf are you even saying?

          • Schmoo@slrpnk.net
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            edit-2
            4 months ago

            I thought it would be obvious I was mocking you by repeating the viewpoint you expressed without the air of pretentiousness that you surround it with, but I guess I was the stupid one for thinking you were capable of recognizing sarcasm.

            Also “critical support” for what, Russian imperialism? Why does Russian imperialism deserve “critical support” while western imperialism deserves direct opposition?

            • carl_marks[use name]@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              4 months ago

              thought it would be obvious I was mocking you by repeating the viewpoint you expressed without the air of pretentiousness that you surround it with, but I guess I was the stupid one for thinking you were capable of recognizing sarcasm.

              I see you’re like arguing with strawmen in your head

              Also “critical support” for what, Russian imperialism? Why does Russian imperialism deserve “critical support” while western imperialism deserves direct opposition?

              That’s what I’m asking you dumbass lol why can you lend western imperialism critical support and not to Russia? Maybe figure out the term and how it’s defined before speaking on it?

                • carl_marks[use name]@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  4 months ago

                  Sorry, I was under the impression you were speaking in favor of NATO expansion and think that while the US is bad, it’s emdevours in Ukraine are just (this time).

                  Also “critical support” for what, Russian imperialism? Why does Russian imperialism deserve “critical support” while western imperialism deserves direct opposition?

                  Revolutionary defeatism

                  Recognizing that yes, Putin’s Russia is a bourgeois state with highly questionable rights for sexual minorities and a husk of its former Soviet glory, its re-nationalized industries are a target for the US imperialist emdevours ripe to be privatized again. (You can see how the NATO supports racist nawalny,.but not the largest opposition force in Russia instead, etc.)

                  To understand the geopolitical context of the NATO proxy war in Ukraine against Russia it helps to watch the Mearsheimer lecture on it (hardly Russian propaganda)

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4

                  Also Ben Norton gives a solid breakdown here

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhajzlhcgSk

                  • Schmoo@slrpnk.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    ·
                    4 months ago

                    Let me approach this from a different angle. If a military defeat is necessary to create revolutionary conditions, is it not then in the best interest of the working class in each imperialist power for the other to win, and does that not then put the working class in each imperialist power at odds with one another?

                    Don’t you believe in internationalism? Solidarity?

                    How many hundreds of thousands of lives does it cost to create revolutionary conditions, and how can you be so arrogant as to cheer while they’re fed into the meatgrinder, believing with such certainty that it means you’ll get your chance at revolution?

                  • Vilian@lemmy.ca
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    ·
                    4 months ago

                    When they point “NATO expansionism”, you know that any logical discussion is beyond hope