This is turning a generation of people tech illiterate. The young people I interact with are smart because they’re all employed by a tech company and mentored by us dinosaurs, but I’ve heard some horror stories of the tech literacy of the average young person.
Touchscreen was a mistake.
I’m an IT teacher at a community centre, I genuinely never thought I would see the day when a student younger than me enrolled. I wrongly assumed my role as a public educator would just fade out as younger generations required generally less training around computers.
Obviously courses in disability service centres would remain, and accredited training for people to kick off or retarget their careers would still exist.
But the person at the local library who meets twice a week and teaches grandma how to close the tabs on her phone felt like a job that was destined to die.
I’m in my 30s and this year I have a few teenagers in my class. The conversations are hilarious, they don’t know how to read a file location adreess or open a program that isn’t pinned to the taskbar, but at the same time, I don’t know how to access the notifications bar on an iPhone or quickly find the wifi settings without going through general settings…because I went from windows to 98, to a blackberry, to an Android, just like they went from an ipad toddler to an iPhone teen, and only now are they having Windows 11 thrown at them, and of all the computers to try and learn to use, this wouldn’t be my first recommendation (but it’s what our government funds us to teach 🤷♀️)
The skill divide is so hard to explain too. My elderly students just stare blankly at one screen, overwhelmed and confused, unsure how to recognise anything. Nothing stands out as a link, or a click able button, because the entire visual landscape is new to them. There is often a lot of hand holding which can be frustrating especially when you made a huge breakthrough in their confidence and independence only to have come in the next week feeling insecure about their skills because they’ve forgotten a little bit, or had a bad spam caller over the weekend who made them want to never touch a computer again.
Then the teens, who know what links look like and generally what they do will rush ahead, they may not know what it is exactly they’re trying to do, but they think they know what end result is expected and they generally know how to avoid catastrophic issues so they just barrel ahead, I’ll see them make 40 clicks a second for something that usually takes 2, because they’re throwing spaghetti at the wall.
I had a project last week. Dead simple. Save a linked file to a target location, import the file into another program through either drag and drop or browsing for the file, then change 1 thing, and export the final file into another target location, as specified on the activity sheet.
Barely 5 minutes in, I’m still helping Brenda get her mouse dongle plugged in, and one of the teens is finished. And yes, they have every file I asked for, and every edit I asked for, but both are just sitting in the downloads folder. And now we’re at the end looking back, the teen is confused because they have the edited file that is required to "finish*, how is it wrong, and I’m trying to explain why skipping the steps about target locations means they’ll have to start again because this activity is all about target locations and I don’t actually give two shits about this file I just need them to put things in and out of a folder until they can explain to me “a folder is a container” and not just stare into space because a folder is a black hole on their phone things they save go to until they need them again and just download them again.
Nothing stands out as a link, or a click able button, because the entire visual landscape is new to them.
That’s because modern UI designers are all about form over function. UI rules were worked out 40 years ago with the first gui’s. But you don’t get a promotion for maintaining code. So everyone has to do something different to get noticed.
So now we have UI’s where interactive and non interactive elements are mixed without any visual distinction.
Yes, this is much worse than when a bunch of old people were upset when young people didn’t know how to use a telegraph/party line/rotary dial/gramophone/touchtone/turntable/fax/dialup modem/cassette deck/etc. Because now it’s happening now, and back then it was happening then.
Your phone is measuring time by counting how many seconds has passed since 1970-01-01 00:00 UTC. Doesn’t matter if you’re on android or apple, the OS is based on ideas of Bell Labs people’s ideas from the 1960’s.
The difference is all that stuff went away, traditional desktop computers aren’t going anywhere. Sure, you can probably manage fine at home with just a phone, but not in a lot of jobs.
To be fair, Android is absolutely atrocious whenever files are involved.
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Still can’t rename file extensions though
I just tried with the default files app. You can definitely rename file extensions.
Touch input isn’t the problem. Hiding the file system is.
Yup. I teach at a university. It used to be adequate for instructions to say something along the lines of
open the file
C://Folder/anotherfolder/subfolder/document.extI encounter more and more students every year that have no idea how to do this.
Your path syntax is wrong tho…
For better or worse, we’re going the way of “the car guy”. It used to be something everyone needed to know a little bit about, but now fades into the background with a handful of experts.
Damn that’s a good way to put it.
I’m car guy, IT guy, home maintenance guy, and electronics repair guy.
I learned how to do everything because I’m a cheap ass that won’t replace what can be fixed and won’t pay to have something be fixed when I can manage it myself.
I got 240,000 miles on a car right now and it’s never seen the inside of a shop. Last big screen TV was free because it was broken and then I soldered new LEDS on to fix it. Paid $25 for an $800 dishwasher that just needed disassembling and cleaning. Also $25 for a front load whirlpool washing machine with a broken internal lock mechanism that I repaired. Same for a dryer with bad rollers inside.
People blow way too much money on buying new stuff instead of just learning how to fix and maintain things now. /old man rant
It’s either in
/sdcard/Downloadsor/external/emulated/0/android/data/com.google.chrome/Downloads. Couldn’t be easier.chrome instead of anything besides that
🤢🤮
com.microsoft.iemobile
Except when it is not…
For example Boost saves photo is some photo folder somewhere.
The only way i can find anything is using a photo app and scanning my entire phone to find things.
I was being facetious. Yeah, every app saves into a different location. It’s bonkers.
Sandboxing is a good thing. It makes it a lot easier and safer for billions of devices to run millions of apps.
Sure except that we already have computers where every app uses the same folder structure, just with some files/folders protected with elevated permissions that aren’t accessible to every app. We already have a solution that works and every desktop OS uses. Why would mobile go for a solution that isn’t actually usable?
The desktop solution isn’t feasible in the mobile context. Even for desktops, you see an increased interest in reproducible/containerized/sandboxed environments with docker, flatpak/snap, immutable operating systems, and so on. It’s all about managing complexity.
oh yeah? now list paths for all the other applications
You have other applications?
Couldn’t be easier.
Would certainly be easier if there wasn’t an or in your statement.
ITT: people who have no working knowledge of file system navigation complain about the lack of such knowledge
honestly it’s not this, is just the fact that android puts so much shit in between you and whatever you’re trying to do.
The concept of downloading a file is simple, it’s courtesy to tell you where it downloads at the very least. Android doesnt exactly have the most sane of defaults.
dont get me wrong, im a linux user, im a certified power user, even i can’t stand android.
Android has ways for app devs to specify where files get saved. App devs just usually don’t give a shit, because they want to write a single lowest common codebase for android and iOS.
Developers not bothering with Android features because they don’t exist on iOS is both infuriating and gives me IE6 era vibes.
IE6 era vibes
But… this is a nearly opposite situation, no? Microsoft added a bunch of their own shit with no attempt at standardization, and instead of simply not using those features, a ton of websites started making IE a hard requirement.
file - downloads
me: /storage/emulated/0/Android/data/org.mozilla.firefox/files/Download or /storage/3564-3130/Android/data/org.mozilla.firefox/files/Download here I come!
Isn’t the opposite?
Saving in downloads on Android doesn’t need additional storage permissions, so apps will save in the big “trash can” downloads folder
Instead, who the fuck knows where iOS saved that file, where every app is sandboxed and isolated
The worst is when an android app is clearly an iOS port. E.g Patreon app saves all files under a generic name rather than the one you get when saving the same file from a browser, because I guess on iOS it just goes into your camera reel without a filename anyway. Or how Bluesky app just straight up says “saved to your camera reel” and puts it in your DCIM folder, with no option to specify a different location.
The worst is when an android app is clearly an iOS port.
This always means there are zero settings. If there’s no way of configuring the app, I find an alternative. There are few things more frustrating than software that assumes one size fits all.
True, the folder is pretty easy to find and always the same.
Although the big problem is how quickly that folder can get messy.
Mine is filled with so much pdf files that i never want to sort, sometimes there’s duplicates because i didn’t want to scroll to find the first one so i downloaded it a second time.
IOS has a files app where saved files go
Basically the same as your download directory
Yeah lol I love how this commenter is mad about apps being sandboxed. There’s a downloads folder in the files app, or apps can have their own virtual filesystems, also accessible within the files app. Stupid iOS and ensuring that apps can’t just write to wherever they want on the filesystem
To be fair, you can’t write wherever you want on Android, either. For example, you can’t write to most of the files in
/Androidunless you use one of the many, many exploits to do sosince it’s basically a protected system area.That’s fair, I was more concerned with someone getting mad at increased security like sandboxing is a bad thing
Don’t forget “This file has already been downloaded, do you want to download it again?”
And the options are to cancel or download again but you can’t open the already existing file from the prompt, so you might as well just download that fucking PDF for the fifth time since it’s not as if you knew where the bloody thing’s been downloaded anyway!
Click the name. It doesn’t look like an option, because there are buttons for download or cancel, but the file name is also a link to the file.
It links to a file with that name. There have been times where I download a pdf and click the name only for my phone to open a different pdf than the one I was supposed to be downloading. Turns out they both had the same name.
It makes sense. I don’t think it’s possible to detect if the contents in two files are identical before downloading it, so all it can do is to compare the file name.
Anyway, the dialogue could be more helpful in this regard, but I guess that would also annoy or confuse some users.
Nope, not on my Pixel 7 using Chrome
It works on my Pixel 7 using Chrome!
Show me a screenshot of where you’re able to tap to open the file because I certainly can’t find it…
If I tap the file name it opens the keyboard, if I tap the folder it shows how much space is available…
You’ll need to turn off “ask where to save files” in chrome download settings.
Oh wow, mine presents differently:
you guys don’t simply have a folder called “Downloads” where everything goes?
I have a Downloads folder where some things go. :(
Everything does not go there, different file types seem to go to different places. Successful downloads don’t ever appear sometimes.
idk man, sounds like a skill issue
Do I press download differently? There shouldn’t be skill in the default download location.
yes you gotta press it on the right spot…
https://www.f-droid.org/en/packages/name.lmj001.savetodevice/ I just use share option and select this app it just saves where ever u want…
Would anyone know where wallpapers are stored? I took a picture with an older phone (Oneplus 6) and used it as such. I upgraded to Nothing Phone 1 and I am using it as wallpaper because it copied when migrating but I cannot find anywhere for the life of me!
In the Downloads or Pictures folder , under the name of the application. I am shocked that this isn’t common knowledge.
Android 14 :/
Now try it on an iPhone
Or OneDrive.
File > Save As > Desktop.
Doesn’t save to local Desktop, but the OneDrive desktop wherever the fuck that is.
This is why I say that Windows is not user friendly. People just got trained to put up with it.
Just did.
It went right to the “Saved on my iPhone” section of the Files app.
Let’s not talk about the iPhone file explorer lol.
There is one?
There’s literally a thing you can click on called, get this…
FILES
It’s where all of the files on the device live, at least non-photo/video files.
I had an iPhone back when the 3Gs was the newest phone, then an iPod touch 4g after that. None of them had a file explorer while my android phone from the time did. I didn’t know they had added one until recently when I saw it on my roommate’s phone. So they probably didn’t know iOS had one
You’re referring to some ancient history at this point. iPhones may look like they always have, but they’ve come a long way over the years.
Yeah, I understand. It does make sense if you think about the demographic that usually uses iPhones vs Androids, I’d be willing to bet 80% of iPhones/iPods (do they even still make the iPod touch?) have only ever opened that app mistakenly haha.
Not trying to start a flame war or anything, just most iPhone users I know would pretty much never need to use the file explorer.
Yeah, the average iPhone user probably doesn’t use Files at all. Photos stores all of your photos and videos, so it’s really just PDFs that go in there for me. And a lot people don’t ever download PDFs anyways, since you can view them directly in a browser.
That isn’t a negative though. You’re saying that it auto sorts downloaded content well enough that the user doesn’t even have to be aware of how to access the file manager to still use the phone effectively. That isn’t a flaw, it’s a feature.
For anyone who does have a baseline level of proficiency, the file manager is functional, and familiar. I use it to pass torrents to my server all the time.
With a terminal and a file manager on iOS, I don’t run into a single thing I need to do that I can’t.
Actually…android has the exact same app name. “Files” but I guess it’s real name if you want to make sure you’re getting the right one is “Files by Google”
For android, it seems to be the best one for finding recent stuff and navigating around. Like any newly downloaded or modified thing saved to the phone shows up under a “recently” section in Files, so it works out well for dealing with such a screwball android filing system.
That’s fair, but not relevant to what I was responding to hahaha
Also I don’t want anything by google, personally. I don’t use any google products or services.
I like being able to hold my phone however I want without losing a connection and not having updates pushed to me that degrade my performance to hide battery and power design flaws, myself ;-)
That’s pretty ignorant also. All phones throttle your power when your battery is old, so instead of just dying at 30% (like old android phones used to), you get a slow drain to under 5% before it dies.
It’s not a “power design” or battery flaw, it’s literal fucking physics lawl
No they don’t. You’re also an idiot, and Apple actually got in a huge amount of trouble for doing it.
If anyone wants an actual answer: iPhone has an option to “Save to Files” that lets you select a folder to save to just like on a desktop OS. I’ve personally never lost a file when I do this.
I was told iphones don’t even use files.
As a unixy based OS it is all files
Files as an implementation detail, sure. But my general impression of iOS is that it tries really hard to avoid exposing users to the existence of a file system.
Apple loves lying to its users.
You can usually see this as a notification - and tapping on that notification should open the file, wherever it is. As for the specific location, I’d expect it to be
/storage/emulated/0/Downloadmost of the times.Removed by mod
