That’s why a percentage of income should be the fine. Like the porsche man who got a $400000 fine. Rich prick wasn’t laughing all of a sudden.
Several countries use a dayfine system, we in Sweden have used dayfines since 1931, Finland since 1921, Germany since 1969, There are a few more countries using the system, but I could not quickly find any historical data about them.
Dayfines are great and should be used globaly.
A day-fine, day fine, unit fine or structured fine is a unit of payment for a legal fine which is based on the offender’s daily personal income. It is intended as a punishment financially equivalent to incarceration for one day without salary, scaled to equal impacts on both high- and low-income offenders. An analogy may be drawn with income tax, which is also proportional to income, or even levied at higher rates for higher incomes.
Jurisdictions employing the day-fine include Denmark (Danish: dagbøde), Estonia (Estonian: päevamäär), Finland (Finnish: päiväsakko), France (French: Jour-amende), Germany (German: Tagessatz), Sweden (Swedish: dagsbot), Switzerland, and Macao.
Great idea but still unfair. It is the same as a high salaried person being able to afford quitting their job and take a couple of months to look for another or go on parental leave. They can afford it because they have savings. A day fine will also hit the poorest the most, because they don’t have savings to afford paying such a fine.
And as @brisk pointed out, wealth isn’t income
Also, this would mean people with no money or income could do what they want without any consequences.
Im also failing to understand why successful people should supposedly be charged more. It doesnt make a difference if the person who committed the crime has more or less money, so they should be charged according to the crime, not what they have.
Im also failing to understand why successful people should supposedly be charged more. It doesnt make a difference if the person who committed the crime has more or less money, so they should be charged according to the crime, not what they have.
So the idea is that if something is a $10,000 fine, it will stop the average person from doing it, but it might not stop directors/owners of companies and it definitely won’t stop a company from doing it themselves.
It doesnt make a difference if the person who committed the crime has more or less money
Of course it does. A poor person might find themselves in a situation where they have to steal groceries or other necessities for pure survival. If I were poor and needed diapers and there was no governmental support program available I would also steal them. Or formula or whatever. A rich person can afford all of that. If they steal groceries it is for the thrill, not out of necessity.
Also, note that really bad crimes (murder for example) are not fined. In that sense it does not matter what the financial status of the perpetrator is. Although filthy rich people can sometimes even buy their way out of these crimes.
You have a point but what about stuff like traffic violations? Nobody NEEDS to commit one, so should these fines be the same for everyone?
Also, following your example, person A making 75k/year and person B making 150k/year both have no necessitiy to steal groceries. Yet, if the fine was income-dependent, person B would have to pay way more.
if the goal of the fine is to deter people from committing a traffic violation, the person making $150k will not be equally deterred compared to the person making $75k. If the fine has too little impact, it no longer works as a deterrent. This is especially true for things like parking tickets, where you aren’t necessarily putting yourself or others in danger like you might be for speeding (though, assuming the two people only differ in their income and all other variables – like how willing they are to drive dangerously – remain equal, then the point still stands).
Didn’t know we had that in France, never heard of anyone paying a fine other than a fixed amount (and 90℅ of the time 135€)
Just out of curiosity, how does that work for foreigners, they would only be able to tell the income of citizens would they not?
A valid question, I unfortunately does not have an absolute answer as I don’t know, but we can speculate…
There are only two ways I could see this done.
-
Ask the foreigner’s government for documentation on the subject.
-
Ask the individual in question for proof of their income.
-
A percentage of income still isn’t equitable though.
If you’re destitute a week’s income means you starve.
If you’re a millionnaire a week’s income stings bit doesn’t affect much.
If you’re a billionnaire there is a good chance you don’t technically have an income, and if you do you can lose half of your wealth without feeling it.
The billionaire might not feel it, but the money gained could be significant for all sorts of good things that help lift the burdon of the lower class.
This is true, but you could still have a progressive fine. Very good point with the billionaire, though. They live in a completely different world, in terms of how their wealth flow works. Still, it seems like an alternative fine system could be worked out that would hit them hard.
The real solution is to remove the classes so high above everyone that the rules don’t apply. This is a difficult problem only because we’re talking about people who are so ludicrously wealthy a fine for literal hundreds of millions of dollars wouldn’t make them homeless.
I agree. John Oliver once referred to billionaires as something like a bug in the structure of the system, and I wholeheartedly agree with that analysis. Unfortunately, they’re a bug that’s not so easily dislodged. Until then, designing systems that are able to deal with their existence is the best way to deal with them.
Was just about to say this, too. Fines are totally great if they’re a percentage of your wealth.
Sailor Moon grows up to be the queen of the moon. Possibly also the Earth, although I can’t remember. Either way, she’s no ally to the proletariat.
Punitive damages shouldn’t have a cap, and should be even greater than proportional, since it’s easier for someone who is richer to live on a smaller proportion of their income.
More sailor moon please
If the punishment for murder is paid administrative leave…
Then your job is to protect capital from the poors.
Privilege means private law.
Would be nice to see fines replaced with community service in many cases. Though I feel like you would then need to ensure that those doing community service are compensated the equivalent of their wage(s) prior to conviction if community service requires you use hours otherwise used by your job. Otherwise, somebody dependent on their job effectively pays more for smaller fines due to loss of work. It would also help to prefer out-of-hours community service (weekends for example) to avoid losing hours from your job in the first place. Ideally, jail would be reserved for cases where the person is a genuine danger, rather than use it as punishment.
Except then you get the boss’ son “making coffee” at daddy’s (friend’s) company as their “service”. The rich will still find a way to game the system.
Which doesn’t mean that it’s not worth a try!:-)
San Francisco lets people pay parking fines with community service, and I believe their answer to that would be they require sign offs from preapproved organizations. (Sure, somebody somewhere could take a bribe.)
