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Some woman on the internet said she would feel safer spending a night in the woods with a random bear rather than with a random man

    • Gonzako@lemmy.world
      9·
      6 months ago

      Yeah, the bear pick is the sneaky way women try to rob the average man of status by implying that we are mindless beasts willing to do the worst at the first chance we get.

      • mrcleanup@lemmy.world
        36·
        6 months ago

        The fact that you think the point of this is your status and not someone else’s safety says so much.

        • Gonzako@lemmy.world
          15·
          6 months ago

          Because it is about insulting men. No one’s actually getting trapped with bears because they’re answering either way. It’s there to prove a view, would you rather be stuck with a bear or a black person? A gay person? A trans person? A jew? A Muslim?

          It’s there to rile up people about their prejudices and I’m just sad we’re all getting piled on like this.

          • mrcleanup@lemmy.world
            20·
            6 months ago

            Look, I’m a man, I’m not feeling insulted by this at all. If you are, maybe it’s time to ask why.

            I have no problem being a man while also acknowledging that sexual assault by men is a problem that is big enough that it has created a “caution culture” where people teach their daughters to be vigilant and women will cross the street if someone is walking behind them to stay safe. It isn’t like this is overblown, studies vary but all agree it’s somewhere more than one in ten women are victims of sexual violence in their lifetime. That’s a non-dismissible statistic.

            Sure sexual assault by women is a thing too, but men tend to handle it differently than women do. All we are doing here is acknowledging that in our culture “male stranger danger” is a thing that exists and is pervasive and strong enough that many women would be willing to risk the bear because at least it won’t rape them.

            Why would you be taking that personally?

            • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
              4·
              6 months ago

              personally i’m not insulted, i get it, i understand the problems, but i also don’t understand this at all.

              It’s like it’s hyper polarized almost. The second someone says something or asks a question the response is almost verbatim “yeah but bear wont rape me” (incredibly shitty verbatim quoting but this isn’t a fucking PHD paper so dont @ me lol)

              Like i get that there’s a problem we should be talking about. Why aren’t we? We’re just reiterating the same statement over and over again, expecting for something to change suddenly.

              It’s almost an over abundance of caution, similar to “stranger danger” when in reality, the person most likely to abuse your children, is you or someone you know. Not just a random stranger. Which in it of itself can breed an anti-safety culture, where people aren’t concerned about people they know “because they would never do this” only to find out that, yes, in fact, they would do that.

              • Grumpy@sh.itjust.works
                2·
                6 months ago

                I think hyper polarization is one of the greatest societal issues we face currently. Whether it be war of genders, politics, etc. We are losing the calm middle ground that should be the majority without outside influence.

                It’s so incredibly easy to polarize. We see it in this thread too. The top of this comment thread is a polarization too. Essentially dividing men into 2 distinct set of groups. You’re either good or a villain. This dichotomy is ridiculous and every social community eats it up like crazy, this Lemmy included. These create effects of over abundance, as you mention of caution, fear and hate.

                If anyone actually thinks that they’d be better off with an encounter with a wild bear than a man, they’re just stupid and insane. Just walking down the street, I encounter 1000s of men. If there were 1000s of bears, I’m sure no one would go there. But we’re not appealing to logic. We’re appealing to feelings that’s been derived from these polarizations and sadly I see no way for this to end.

                • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
                  4·
                  6 months ago

                  It’s so incredibly easy to polarize. We see it in this thread too. The top of this comment thread is a polarization too. Essentially dividing men into 2 distinct set of groups. You’re either good or a villain. This dichotomy is ridiculous and every social community eats it up like crazy, this Lemmy included. These create effects of over abundance, as you mention of caution, fear and hate.

                  yeah, i just don’t understand how people engage in this and don’t feel even the littlest bit of fascist tinge to it, because this is how fascist power structures come into play. This is literally how they work. You have an in group, and an out group, anybody in the in group is loyal to you, and anybody in the outgroup is fucking dead.

            • Gonzako@lemmy.world
              2·
              6 months ago

              Well, because it’s prejudice being directed and reinforced towards us! I am the average man, and so are you! I am down for all the #metoo movements ya’ll need but it needs to be pointed towards specifics. I won’t allow to be put in the same cage I supportedsome people to get out of.

    • endhits@lemmy.world
      6·
      6 months ago

      Or maybe people don’t like being roped in with terrible people based on a part of them that they have no control over? Just a thought.

      • explodicle@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        13·
        6 months ago

        In this scenario the woman has limited information. She has no choice but to assume average chances of a man or a bear killing her, regardless of the individual.

        When you’re facing down a threat in the woods, how much they enjoy being stereotyped isn’t your problem.

        • endhits@lemmy.world
          4·
          6 months ago

          If you believe you’re less likely to be in danger with a bear than a man, you’re just sexist.

            • berkeleyblue@lemmy.world
              2·
              6 months ago

              Which would be?

              It’s nonsense. Out of 100 bear encounters about 1 turns violent. Now, how many men does the average women come in contact to daily and how many of them turn violent? I’m pretty sure the numbers are much, much lower than that for a bear encounter.

              My Wife walked passed approximately 1’000 just today. No one even talked to her in a weird way. This whole argument is just fear mongering with sociallly acceptable sexism. This doesn’t solve any problems.

              Also, statistically, strangers are the last people tk worry about. The overwhelming majority of abuse victims know their abuser or are even related. You should be more afraid to see uncle Frank and aunt Jenny in the woods than any random man.

              • explodicle@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                3·
                6 months ago

                This is a gish gallop so I’m just going to highlight that the scenario in question is alone in the woods, not walking past men on a busy street.

                Please consider that you might be getting defensive, and will misinterpret both the initial premise and any explanations as a result.

                • berkeleyblue@lemmy.world
                  1·
                  6 months ago

                  Not at all. You said being alone in a forest with a man is more dangerous than a bear, and I said that’s statistically nonsense.

                  Just because I wrote more than 2 sentences, doesn’t make that a gish gallop.

                  There are 2 premises:

                  1. Bears are dangerous (I agree)
                  2. A random man in a forest is more dangerous to a woman than that bear (I strongly disagree)

                  I showed my numbers for that 1 argument and that’s it. I’m happy to be proven wrong, if you have anything more than “it just is”.

                  I’m not defensive I find this comparison to be simply ridiculous.

    • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      4·
      6 months ago

      i’m just trying to figure out why this is becoming a colloquialism, i mean we’ve had would you rather for a while. But this is a very different format from it, and it’s rather, obtuse. Is the most polite way i can think to explain it.

      I hate that i enjoy sociology sometimes, this is one of those times. People suck.

  • SharkEatingBreakfast@sopuli.xyz
    97·
    6 months ago

    Context: Some woman on the internet said she would feel safer spending a night in the woods with a random bear rather than with a random man

    Some woman

    Not “some woman” — quite a few women. Lots of women.

      • lud@lemm.ee
        22·
        6 months ago

        Really? What people do you usually hang around with?

        Bears are incredibly strong and dangerous and will kill you just for fun.

        I would honestly prefer a random man to a fucking moose.

        • SuperSaiyanSwag@lemmy.zipEnglish
          36·
          6 months ago

          Man is more unpredictable than bear. I know A bear can kill me, but I have no idea what a random man has in mind for me.

          • lud@lemm.ee
            7·
            6 months ago

            Sure. I guess it depends on what odds you are comfortable with. I prefer the very small odds of something worse than death or anything happing at all with Man than the high odds of death with a bear.

            • SuperSaiyanSwag@lemmy.zipEnglish
              16·
              6 months ago

              Where are you getting these odds from? For how many people live in bear regions, go camping/hunting/biking etc, there have not been that many bear attacks. Source

              • lud@lemm.ee
                5·
                6 months ago

                From this scenario I’m obviously assuming you have to be close to the bear for the entire day.

                It’s not like the bear/man is at the other side of the forest.

                And as to where I got my odds from? Well out of my ass. There are no statistics on this extremely specific scenario.

          • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
            6·
            6 months ago

            This has a strong “at least they’re honest about wanting to kill me!” energy lol.

            Or maybe the whole thing is a joke. I honestly can’t tell

          • berkeleyblue@lemmy.world
            1·
            6 months ago

            Bear: Couldn’t tell you what he’s up to even if it wanted to

            Men: Can actually listen and talk their intentions.

            Why is a man less predictable in this case? You all just claim things without the slightest bit of argument behind it… so please tell my why that would be the case.

            Thanks.

      • Ragnarok314159@sopuli.xyz
        2·
        6 months ago

        Because a nice bear is going to ask for consent, and might snuggle you and…wait. What kind of bear are we talking about?

    • prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works
      25·
      6 months ago

      Right, this is what folks aren’t understanding.

      Yes a big ass bear is clearly more dangerous but like in reality the random man is much more variable and there are WAY more examples of what we’re capable of as opposed to what a bear does.

      A bears nature is understood.

      • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
        7·
        6 months ago

        Yes a big ass bear is clearly more dangerous

        If it is a black bear, which 99 percent of the time it would be, nah, the man is more dangerous. Black bears are scaredy cats.

    • lud@lemm.ee
      3·
      6 months ago

      Yes, the safety guidelines are not being close to a bear.

  • Landsharkgun@midwest.socialEnglish
    35·
    6 months ago

    Are we talking brown bears or black bears?

    Brown bears are violently territorial and will attack you for being in eyeshot.

    Black bears are basically giant racoons and will move away from people - especially if you’re making loud noises and making yourself look big - because they don’t want that smoke. They’ll only get aggressive if you surprise them or get anywhere near their younglings.

    I’d probably take a black bear over a lot of dudes. As long as we got a good hundred feet or so of distance, Mr Bear and I ain’t gonna bother each other.

    • radiofreeval [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
      11·
      6 months ago

      Brown bears aren’t human killing machines. They adjust their territory not to see people. Bears in general stay away from people and don’t care enough to attack.

    • Soulcreator@lemmy.world
      10·
      6 months ago

      Totally agreed, the question is so vague it’s absurd. Are we talking a panda or a grizzly? Is the man a locked-in paraplegic or an violent ex con?

      Regardless how you answer there’s always another possibility that makes your decision look stupid.

      • inb4_FoundTheVegan@lemmy.world
        8·
        6 months ago

        Yeah but that’s a different scenario all togther. Not all men are dangerous rapists, obviously. But enough are prone to assault and SA that it’s statistically safer to have some random bear (possibly grizzly or teddy) than some random man. If you don’t feel like the random guy walking down the street is dangerous, that’s probably because random men on the street don’t regularly harass you, which is unfortunately still a very common occurance to most women.

        • Soulcreator@lemmy.world
          4·
          6 months ago

          While I understand and respect your viewpoint, I’m not quite sure you understand what I’m saying here… The question is designed to be a no win scenario, it’s phrased in such a vague way that no matter how you answer someone else can chime in and say oh no, your not imagining the terrible scenario I’m imagining. There’s literally no way of answering it in a way that someone is going to chime in and tell your wrong.

          It’s literally designed to be a test designed to gauge your reaction more than it is to be answered seriously.

          Without more info one can’t possibly respond in a legitimate manner. And any responses without additional information is more of a mirror to your own personal disposition and fears than it is a legitimate response to the question.

    • Ragnarok314159@sopuli.xyz
      6·
      6 months ago

      I was in the smoky mountains with my kids camping, and we heard a bear digging around. My kids started crying, they for sure knew they were dead.

      I got out of the tent, stomped my feet so the bear heard me and wasn’t startled, and then went “boogaaboogaaa” and raised my arms. Poor little black bear went running off and kept looking back.

      And my kids had a really cool story about when their dad chased away a giant scary bear.

  • apotheotic (she/her)@beehaw.orgEnglish
    35·
    6 months ago

    I am unironically bearpilled in this context. Men can be fucking scary with women. At least I’m unlikely to be SA’d before I die, with the bear.

    • liuther9@feddit.nl
      8·
      6 months ago

      Why by default man is a serial killer and sa? What are the odds that dude is a psycho? What are the odds that bear is a killer? Do you understand how hard it is psychologically to murder someone if you are a normal person?

      • apotheotic (she/her)@beehaw.orgEnglish
        18·
        6 months ago

        The man is not “by default” a serial killer and sa, its just a possibility I don’t want to entertain.

        And yes, hello, I am normal person. I understand how hard it is psychologically to murder someone. I also know how hard it is psychologically to SA someone. And yet…

        This is a “this is the option I would take” situation. I didn’t insult anyone, I didn’t say YOU have to take the bear. If you disagree, that’s perfectly okay, but you can’t tell me how I should feel, despite many men thinking that’s acceptable.

      • Enkrod@feddit.de
        14·
        6 months ago

        Odds of a sexual abuser need not be high for the man, they’re simply 0% for the bear.

        • apotheotic (she/her)@beehaw.orgEnglish
          5·
          6 months ago

          Are you referring to me? I wouldn’t touch tiktok with a 10 foot pole, or any of the infinite scroll short form video things for that matter. I’m not on twitter either. Or tumblr.

          My POV is based on my personal experience and the experiences of women around me. And statistics!

      • apotheotic (she/her)@beehaw.orgEnglish
        24·
        6 months ago

        What the fuck did I say about black men? White men (men, regardless of race, for that matter) scare the fuck out of me my guy

        E: You wouldn’t happen to be a… man would you? Would be very fitting with the whole “derailing a conversation about women feeling unsafe” thing.

      • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
        4·
        6 months ago

        You’re thinking Emmitt Til and that wasn’t because the white woman was afraid, it was because she was willing to go along with the white men.

  • jsomae@lemmy.ml
    27·
    6 months ago

    I get the sentiment, but realistically I’ll still pick the random man. A man could kill or rape me. A bear is likely to kill me.

    • Skkorm@lemmy.world
      31·
      6 months ago

      Actually a bear is very unlikely to come after you. I come from an extremely rural part of Alberta, Canada, and large bears would sometimes wander in and near town. They wouldn’t run around swiping people up and murdering them, they would just basically wander around eating garbage and looking for food. The reality is that if you were in the woods with a random bear, unless it was starving or you were near its Cubs, it likely wouldn’t see you as important.

      I’ll tell you what though. The bodies of indigenous women would get found in the woods sometimes. Bears didn’t put them there, men did.

      • Grumpy@sh.itjust.works
        4·
        6 months ago

        Actually statistics show that an encounter with a bear is orders of magnitude more dangerous than an encounter with a man. Obviously. I encounter 1000s of men as I was down the street and I’m not dead yet.

        Yes, it’s very unlikely to run into a bear. But if that’s the point you’re making, you’re missing the predicate of the question where the encounter is already assumed.

      • jsomae@lemmy.ml
        4·
        6 months ago

        Statistical error. Unlikely to encounter a bear; but per bear encounter, less likely to survive than per men encounter.

        Serial killers and rapists are very clever and because there exist serial killers who want to kill indigenous women in the woods, they will likely succeed. Bears have no such desire, and because indigenous women are clever they will avoid the bears.

        But I’m willing to bet that the odds of a random man being a rapist/murderer are much lower than a random bear deciding to kill me.

        It’s hard thing to think about because our brains want to rephrase the situation into taking account how likely it is to encounter men vs bears in the first place. That’s why this isn’t very applicable to, say, staying safe at night or in bars.

        …except it is. This is why, if you have to take a ride home with a strange man, it’s much safer to go with an arbitrary man of your choosing than the one who offers.

    • Darkenfolk@dormi.zone
      3·
      6 months ago

      But at least I could reason with a bear.

      Sure you can Steve Irwin, I somehow doubt that the bear can reason with you though.

  • gmtom@lemmy.world
    15·
    6 months ago

    That post frustrated the fuck out of me. Like I get and agree with the point you’re trying to make. But no, if you were actually given that choice no reasonable person is actually going to pick the bear.

      • gmtom@lemmy.world
        13·
        6 months ago

        You share your world with random men you don’t know every single day. How often do you walk through a bear encloser at a zoo?

    • WalrusDragonOnABike [they/them]@lemmy.today
      11·
      6 months ago

      Why wouldn’t a reasonable person pick the bear? Plenty of people have just ordinary, totally safe experiences with bears in their normal lives. Meanwhile, they have ordinary SV committed against them by men in their normal lives. Why shouldn’t they pick the group that hasn’t been a constant threat to them? Its not asking you to try to pick a fight with the bear.

      • gmtom@lemmy.world
        3·
        6 months ago

        Why wouldn’t a reasonable person pick the bear?

        Because you’re comparing a wild animal that can easily kill you with a single swipe, with a random normal person?

        Plenty of people have just ordinary, totally safe experiences with bears in their normal lives.

        I can, with 10,000,000,000% certainty tell you that way more people have vastly more ordinary, totally safe experiences with random men in their normal lives than with bears.

        • WalrusDragonOnABike [they/them]@lemmy.today
          6·
          6 months ago

          Because you’re comparing a wild animal that can easily kill you with a single swipe, with a random normal person?

          Can easily kill is different than likely to. Plus, the same is true of any human, but they’re also much more likely to have outcomes far worse than quickly being just being killed. Its a random person in the woods, not just a *normal *person (whatever “normal” is supposed to mean). But honestly, I don’t think I’d put it past many “normal” humans (men and women) to commit at least minor SV in the “right” circumstances.

          I can, with 10,000,000,000% certainty tell you that way more people have vastly more ordinary, totally safe experiences with random men in their normal lives than with bears.

          Sure, but I’m just as certain that women have far more experiences with SV from humans than any violence from bears. Even if they’re actual survivors of bear attacks, they’re likely the victim of far more SV by men.

    • Mubelotix@jlai.luOP
      8·
      6 months ago

      I’m not trying to make a point tbh. It’s one of those questions where there is no right answer due to many details not being said in the question

    • TK420@lemmy.world
      5·
      6 months ago

      I have had bears violently coming towards me, I would not pick an apex predator any day, but yeah, pick the bear, sure lol.

  • DSTGU@sopuli.xyz
    15·
    6 months ago

    I m losing faith in humanity any time this conversation resurfaces and I believe it would be a massive benefit to everyone involved if it never happened